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An Apology From TechCrunch

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Re: An Apology From TechCrunch

#171

Post by roguecoder »

prodigal_erik wrote: post #158
farmerjack wrote: post #16

Are people actually outraged? Since when did hacker culture take such a large turn toward political correctness?

Hacker culture is growing up on stuff like Heinlein articulating non-monogamy and other departures from the mainstream. This is just the plague of the professionally offended drawn in because software is big business now, and the crimethink-seeking drones employers must appoint just to avoid being sued into oblivion.

Also Heinlein's sexism and completely non-reality-based portrayals of women.

Martin Fowler still said it best: "I have a different vision - one that sticks it to the suits so hard it will make their eyes water. How about a community where women are valued for their ability to program and not by the thickness of their skin? How about a community that edgily pushes new boundaries without reinforcing long running evils? Perhaps even a community where women reach equal numbers? Such a community would hand the suits the defeat in the long battle women have been fighting for centuries. I'd love to be part of that."

Re: An Apology From TechCrunch

#172

Post by MistahKoala »

foobarbazqux wrote: post #147
MistahKoala wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In general, it depends on where in the world they are, and in general (if we're framing this in terms of the same women for whom a hackathon might be accessible), they are driven by characteristic/ psychological factors (Sexually Transmitted Diseases:Volume 26(2)February 1999). That's also pretty demeaning to women whose choices deserve to be respected, rather than pitied ("poor, silly women!").

Desperately trying to escape the shittiness of your life through drug abuse, and from there getting into prostitution, is still desperation. Say what you will about respect, but I find it disgusting that our society demeans women by congratulating them for entering sex work as a profession. ("Oh good for you, you made a free choice to take off your panties for me! What a sweet little empowered capitalist you are!") T…

And there are plenty that don't. Presumably you don't claim those women for yourself, though.

Re: An Apology From TechCrunch

#173

Post by roguecoder »

metaphorm wrote: post #67
chrischen wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Political correctness is sensitivity to the minority, and is generally not a bad thing.

there's a difference between appropriate consideration of minorities and over-the-top political correctness. simply put, intent matters and people need to accept that a reflexive hostility towards puerile male humor does not advance the cause of women.

"That's treating people with respect gone mad!"

If you take away the sexual, objectifying context, the joke's no longer funny. "EyeContact" isn't an app.

It really doesn't matters whether they were trying to diminish a class of people's humanity and reinforce the widespread idea that that group's autonomy is subservient to straight men's desires, or if they were just exploiting that dynamic because they were too incompetent, lazy and uncreative to produce something of value and didn't care that the dynamic they were reinforcing is demeaning and harmful. Either way, it's worthy of scorn.

"I don't work for the NSA because I want a universal surveillance state: I just work here because it's hilarious when I tell my relatives that I know their shopping lists!" It being a joke doesn't make it better.

Re: An Apology From TechCrunch

#174

Post by roguecoder »

Amadou wrote: post #148
gojomo wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally I thought the demo was meta-commentary about absurd photo-sharing apps, community standards, and the combined awkwardness/humor of "men caught looking" (and then we, the audience or hypothetical users of the app, "caught looking at men looking"). Regressive, yes, but also recursive. The chosen example photos seemed to have as their subject the male gaze, not the breasts themselves. And, unless staged, such…

The chosen example photos seemed to have as their subject the male gaze, not the breasts themselves. Yes, so many people seem to have missed this key point. To quote from the opening sentence in the presentation - "Titstare is an app where you take photos of yourself staring at tits."

Right there, they have just assumed the audience is entirely male, entirely straight and entirely just as crass, rude and objectifying as they are.

Even if the app weren't also obviously sexist and offensive, those assumptions are.

(They are also insulting every man in the audience. I take personal offense that they assume I am as uncaring and lazy as they are.)

Re: An Apology From TechCrunch

#175

Post by roguecoder »

gojomo wrote: post #99

Their promised fix, "every presentation is getting a thorough screening from this hackathon onward", destroys something that was neat about their hackathon: an essentially free minute on stage to do whatever wild/strange thing the entrants wanted. Yes, such freedom means some embarrassments, promotional spam, offensiveness, and weak/unfunny jokes get on stage. But no-prior-restraint errs on the side of project-inclus…

On the other hand, maybe a team that was previously going to take some lazy, stereotypical sexist copout will now stretch themselves to do something novel, or even interesting instead.

Re: An Apology From TechCrunch

#176

Post by roguecoder »

farmerjack wrote: post #36
USNetizen wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You had to create a new HN identity to post that? Afraid of something? Hacker culture is no longer a good-ol-boy's club for good reasons. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't feel very included in a culture that denigrated me like certain hacker events of late do to women.

I didn't have an HN identity. I felt like this might be an interesting discussion, so I created an account. Is it a big secret that men like to look at boobs? I'd like to meet the women who were so offended by such an obvious joke. In the entire circle of women I know, I really can't think of one who wouldn't recognize the playfulness of the idea (and not take it seriously). If a female made an app that included men'…

No; they'd be making homophobic jokes instead.

For example of a gender-swapped situation that made the man in question extremely uncomfortable even without the history and cultural norms that excuse rape, I recommend reading about Jon Hamm's penis: http://www.rollingstone.com/movies/news/jon-hamm-tired-of-jo...

Re: An Apology From TechCrunch

#177

Post by __--__ »

roguecoder wrote: post #169
ng12 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why the presentations in question were sexist/mysoginistic. Immature? Yes. Crude? Yes. Probably shouldn't have made it on stage? Yes. Sexist? I'm unconvinced. I also don't understand why they were only a problem because they were "sexist". The apps were parodying behavior that well... many men engage in -- which is something you can acknowledge regardless of your gender. The immaturity alone should…

Were there shots of men's cleavage? Nope? It was sexist by any reasonable definition of "sexism". Pointing that out isn't "heavy handed", it's the truth. Whoever doxed them was heavy-handed, but since I haven't seen any threat worse than "I will never work with them" apparently not that heavy-handed. There are consequences for performing your sexism for all the world to see.

Let's say I've just spent the last 30 years on an isolated island in the south pacific. Could you define sexism for me, please, in a way that doesn't make it sound like "thoughtcrime" from 1984.

Re: An Apology From TechCrunch

#178

Post by DanBC »

rfnslyr wrote: post #15
WestCoastJustin wrote: post #9

Anyone coming here, wondering what happened, there were two presentation which were clearly inappropriate. First one was an app called TitStare , which allows you to view, upload, and share softcore photos of.. use your imagination. The second, circle shake , was an app to measure how fast you can jerk your wrist, upload and share your scores, accompanied by a pretty wild presentation. I think the first one must have…

That was absolutely hilarious. I encourage stuff like this. Have a little fun people, nothing to apologize for. Who actually got offended?

How do you explain a man on stage simulating masturbation to your 7 year old child who's asking what's going on?

Re: An Apology From TechCrunch

#179

Post by __--__ »

estel wrote: post #74
adamnemecek wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you please provide an extensive list of things that are ok to be offended by and that others have to accommodate?

No, because we have judgement. (And any given conference has its own rules regarding inclusivity and anti-discrimination).

Except we don't. There are no clearly defined rules of what exactly defines sexism outside of "referring to women in a a way that makes anyone anywhere feel uncomfortable." It's entirely subjective and based on community, culture and societal standards. It's a landmine with wheels. Even if you stand perfectly still, it could bump into your leg at any moment and, I don't know, annoy you to death with shrill platitudes about patriarchy.

Re: An Apology From TechCrunch

#180

Post by Amadou »

roguecoder wrote: post #174
Amadou wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The chosen example photos seemed to have as their subject the male gaze, not the breasts themselves. Yes, so many people seem to have missed this key point. To quote from the opening sentence in the presentation - "Titstare is an app where you take photos of yourself staring at tits."

Right there, they have just assumed the audience is entirely male, entirely straight and entirely just as crass, rude and objectifying as they are. Even if the app weren't also obviously sexist and offensive, those assumptions are. (They are also insulting every man in the audience. I take personal offense that they assume I am as uncaring and lazy as they are.)

they have just assumed the audience is entirely male, entirely straight and entirely just as crass, rude and objectifying as they are.

No more so than other presenters assume that everyone in the audience is just like themselves.

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