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The Dark Side Of Software Development That No One Talks About

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Re: The Dark Side Of Software Development That No One Talks About

#81

Just commenting to say, that in our profession WITHOUT licensure there is not other way to really prove that we're competent except for our reputation. This leads to big egos and constantly trying to make your self look better no matter what. If we were a licensed profession like medicine where you have a third party proof of your competence and you weren't constantly trying to guard your reputation, I bet you that i…

Not in my experience. That just lends itself to a lot of protectionism and equally inflated egos (and the piece of paper to prove you earned it.) In fact, only academia tops medicine for inflated egos and self-aggrandizing behavior in my book.

Re: The Dark Side Of Software Development That No One Talks About

#82
I thought the article was interesting and the eventual conclusion good, but really didn't like the sentiment to "have thicker skin" and to basically just "suck it up" if someone is being mean to you. (He doesn't use those words, but that what he's saying.)

That part seems like victim blaming to me. If people are mean to you without reason, you shouldn't put up with it. You should tell someone. Maybe they're approachable and you can confront them directly, or maybe not. But you absolutely should not get used to it or just accept it. You should do something about it.

Re: The Dark Side Of Software Development That No One Talks About

#83
post #3

Agree with most of the points, but this certainly not some kind of secret that "no one talks about"...

Seems like you don't see as many blog posts or thought pieces about it as opposed to other cultural issues in the industry, like gender imbalances or "startup culture" minutiae.

I'd have to say that's likely because we've been talking about it for as long as there have been software developers working for private companies.

Re: The Dark Side Of Software Development That No One Talks About

#84

Replace Software Development with any job and you are really on to something. People are mean and jerks are everywhere. Perhaps somehow society has convinced us otherwise, but there are a lot of terrible people out there. A lot of people do evil things, a lot of people hurt other people. This is not new and it's not a secret, people for whatever reason are more oblivious to it than they should be or perhaps people ar…

Having been in the work world for a while, I feel like this is new to an extent. I feel like harsh competition to the level of people being willing to sabotage their own projects and so-forth, is a phenomena of a gradually intensifying market-driven pressure that has been unleashed on society through a variety of forces (take-over focused hedge-funds and investor, market-efficiency ideologies, etc).

But reference than anecdotes, I'll give references:

David Gordon documents how downsizing produces expertise in sabotaging other rather than efficiency: http://www.amazon.com/FAT-AND-MEAN-Managerial-Downsizing/dp/...

The Gervais Principle perhaps summarizes the predatory new order. http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-o...

But the point is this a somewhat new order. Of course, competition-so-ruthless-it-produces-bad-behavior has been around forever. But some circumstances allow that truly blossom and I think can argue we have those circumstances now.

Re: The Dark Side Of Software Development That No One Talks About

#85
This was worse in the 1990's during when the Dotcom bubble burst. People we worked with were mean to use because 'programmers are a dime a dozen, we get 500+ resumes a week for your job and can easily find someone to replace you who can work for a lower salary.' Mentality that management had towards us programmers.

It is odd that management claims there is a lack of qualified programmers out there when so many programmers are out of work and qualified. Me, I am told I am overqualified by companies begging the US government to raise the H1B Visa cap because there are not enough qualified programmers to hire. It is a form of bullying and a slap in the face of anyone qualified who wants to earn a decent wage and benefits but is called overqualified because of past salaries they had earned.

Working in an IT department other employees can abuse you, call you names, even physically attack you, and you cannot do anything about it. If you complain to your manager they write you up for 'communication problems'. The average non-IT employee cannot tell the difference between a Microsoft Windows bug or a bug in the custom software that is written and thinks you can fix a bug with Windows or Office, etc. When you tell them you don't have the source code to Windows or Office, they get mad at you. Management tells IT workers to lie to the other employees and tell them you are working on fixing Windows and Office bugs, which is basically lying.

Re: The Dark Side Of Software Development That No One Talks About

#86
post #74

One thing I wish this article talked about: Sometimes, people are brutally honest with little tact. If you're overly sensitive, you might think that such a person is being mean or being a jerk - but they have your best interests in mind , because they are telling you either a factual truth or an unvarnished personal opinion. The reason why they are brusque is not because 'they have been abused' but because, the toler…

I prefer a more tactful style myself, but i would have to agree that a lot of perceived "jerkiness" is really an expression of misplaced respect. I have known programmers who are brutally honest, but they do it because in their mind that is how adults talk to each other and this is how they wish to be treated themselves. Being 'tactful' in their mind is the equivalent of treating the other person like a child, and in…

even bittercoating things is not necessarily bad. Sometimes it's good to take a pessimistic attitude and come out being pleasantly surprised, if you're the type of person who sees it as a challenge and not a discouragement. The litmus test is when the bittercoated thing turns out to work, does the person who delivered the skepticism come forward and congratulate you on a job well done?

Re: The Dark Side Of Software Development That No One Talks About

#87
IT and suicide. A topic that should be discussed.

I had my best friend kill himself on May 31, 1999 when he couldn't find a job and unemployment was running out. He was the best C++ programmer that I knew at the time. He worked at a Startup called Polygon that was mismanaged and abused their employees and then fired them all.

I did all I could to help him find a job, but nobody wanted to take a chance and hire him.

I had many friends I made working IT jobs end up killing themselves because they couldn't find work. Mostly Generation-Xers.

I got suicidal myself sometimes over how management had abused me and treated me. They didn't seem to think I was a human being, just some subhuman third class person they could treat like dirt. Had I worked at a company that treated me a different way I would not have gotten sick and ended up on disability from the stress.

Re: The Dark Side Of Software Development That No One Talks About

#88
The underlying theme in this post, from what I gather, is "Male programmers are often treated poorly by their peers, so female programmers should have nothing to complain about when they are treated poorly."

This is denial of the very real sexism in our industry.

Re: The Dark Side Of Software Development That No One Talks About

#89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a large middle ground between saccharine niceness and vicious back-stabbing. I find that someone who doesn't work well with emotions is typically bad at reasoning too, because the arguments they make end up expressing their feelings in obtuse ways.

>There's a large middle ground between saccharine niceness and vicious back-stabbing. Perhaps you misread me. I'm claiming that saccharine niceness goes WITH vicious back-stabbing. Because people who are vicious back-stabbers are going to be inclined to overcompensate with niceness. >I find that someone who doesn't work well with emotions is typically bad at reasoning too, because the arguments they make end up expre…

> Perhaps you misread me. I'm claiming that saccharine niceness goes WITH vicious back-stabbing. Because people who are vicious back-stabbers are going to be inclined to overcompensate with niceness.

I don't think we really disagree. I think that if conflict is avoided through saccharine niceness, eventually it will come out as vicious back-stabbing, and vice versa as you've noted. So the two apparent opposites actually go hand-in-hand, they feed each other. But when I say a middle ground I mean something like firm politeness. I don't believe that brutality paired with honesty is a middle ground; it's just an aggressive solution instead of a passive aggressive one.

I think when I say bad at reasoning, I really mean anything that at least partially involves a judgment call. A lot of the scientific process is deciding which experiments to do. Yes, an inability to process emotions is generally going to mean you're suited for working with logic, and as such might excel at proofs, programming, theoretical physics, stuff like that.

But the problem I've noticed is that people's careers often get derailed because of emotional issues: it could be because they're passive, they can't handle anger, they get stepped on or taken advantage of, they have grandiose dreams about their research, they become unwilling to admit they were wrong, etc.

Re: The Dark Side Of Software Development That No One Talks About

#90

One thing I wish this article talked about: Sometimes, people are brutally honest with little tact. If you're overly sensitive, you might think that such a person is being mean or being a jerk - but they have your best interests in mind , because they are telling you either a factual truth or an unvarnished personal opinion. The reason why they are brusque is not because 'they have been abused' but because, the toler…

>> the tolerance for bullshit is low

My problem with this is that we often take what's easy and make it into a virtue. It is easy for us (esp. developers) to take the easy way out and decide that one must act the same no matter the context.

The truth is that your audience matters. Outcomes matter. Did the people in the room hear your message in a way that is going to move them closer to fixing the problem? No? Then you lost. (And your brutal honesty is just going to sound like complaining or anticipatory ass-covering.)

There are some organizations and people that are immune to criticism no matter the form. There are many other organizations and people that will accept criticism if it's phrased correctly for the context.

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