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The Dark Side Of Software Development That No One Talks About

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Re: The Dark Side Of Software Development That No One Talks About

#41

Post by Tyrannosaurs »

programminggeek wrote: post #2

Replace Software Development with any job and you are really on to something. People are mean and jerks are everywhere. Perhaps somehow society has convinced us otherwise, but there are a lot of terrible people out there. A lot of people do evil things, a lot of people hurt other people. This is not new and it's not a secret, people for whatever reason are more oblivious to it than they should be or perhaps people ar…

I think that the post over states it but I don't think it's entirely wrong that software developers are atypical in their behaviour, even if it's not exclusive to them.

There is something specific about the way that people in software development can be jerks - passive aggressive behaviour, sometimes a lack of self awareness, a certain type of arrogance or at the very least a lack of empathy.

And this in an area where in many ways there are many similarities which you'd hope fostered friendship and bonding - we're talking about smart people who often share interests.

Maybe it is just that software developers are typical but even if that is the case given levels of intelligence, education and so on I still find it disappointing that we can't be better than that.

Re: The Dark Side Of Software Development That No One Talks About

#42

Post by humanrebar »

dnautics wrote: post #22

One thing I wish this article talked about: Sometimes, people are brutally honest with little tact. If you're overly sensitive, you might think that such a person is being mean or being a jerk - but they have your best interests in mind , because they are telling you either a factual truth or an unvarnished personal opinion. The reason why they are brusque is not because 'they have been abused' but because, the toler…

Great points. Permit me to expand on them slightly.

To some people, myself included, frank honesty is respectful. I could be alone here, but I can find passive-aggressiveness, needless euphemisms, and the like to be patronizing. Treating me with kid gloves is like saying, "I have an opinion, but I don't think you are emotionally mature enough to handle it in its raw form."

It's important for "jerks" to be conscious of how their behavior affects their relationships with coworkers. But it's equally important for "nice" people to do the same.

Re: The Dark Side Of Software Development That No One Talks About

#43

Post by tsunamifury »

georgemcbay wrote: post #32

As has been mentioned already in this thread, jerks are in every profession. But after being a software developer for many years and being exposed to other industries both directly and from hearing about it from third parties, the jerkiness in software development is much more palatable to me (though I'm a software developer, so go figure). In a lot of fields people will be very polite to your face while stabbing you…

Oh please stereotype much? Grumpy old coders want a way to do their job as easily as possible -- which is good. However it becomes bad when they refused to learn new (community accepted) ways of doing things that are either REQUIRED or lead to efficiency down the road.

I'm a young manager that has older coders and I defer to their wisdom 90% of the time. The other 10% I prod them to explore some of those 'wiz-bang' solutions to discover something that they hadn't thought of before.

Re: The Dark Side Of Software Development That No One Talks About

#44

Post by pekk »

georgemcbay wrote: post #32

As has been mentioned already in this thread, jerks are in every profession. But after being a software developer for many years and being exposed to other industries both directly and from hearing about it from third parties, the jerkiness in software development is much more palatable to me (though I'm a software developer, so go figure). In a lot of fields people will be very polite to your face while stabbing you…

The only category you seem to recognize is whether or not someone has real-world experience. There are legitimately negative people in this field who hurt others at their own expense, or for no reason, every day. This isn't about being nicey-nice when dismissing a bad idea.

It isn't a saving grace if someone bullies you 'upfront' on a daily basis - or if they (like you and almost every man in this industry) assume they are right and have more real-world experience and are geniuses.

Re: The Dark Side Of Software Development That No One Talks About

#46

Post by dnautics »

eksith wrote: post #36
dnautics wrote: post #22

One thing I wish this article talked about: Sometimes, people are brutally honest with little tact. If you're overly sensitive, you might think that such a person is being mean or being a jerk - but they have your best interests in mind , because they are telling you either a factual truth or an unvarnished personal opinion. The reason why they are brusque is not because 'they have been abused' but because, the toler…

My bottle of Aspirin says, I should take 2 pills after meals. My cough syrup says, I should take one tablespoon before bed. But something that will, potentially, save me from myself cannot be delivered with tact, compassion and restraint with no delicacy whatsoever with regard to my sensibilities? If the advice someone gives me is not in the form I can ingest, then what they have done is pleasure themselves publicly…

when I hear too many platitudes or niceties that are designed to pad out critical analysis, my ears shut off and the person delivering the analysis loses credibility in my mind. What some people find easy to ingest, others find insulting and will reject it.

It is my perception (and this may or may not be correct) think that people who are often too concerned with seeming nice - are going to be exactly the people who do things like fudge or fake data, and I think it's important to have a strong immune system against those people, at least in my field (science).

To go one step further, saccharine niceness, in my mind, is often coupled with vicious back-stabbing (over-compensation?). I don't want those people around. If you're going to be saying something nasty, say it to my face. Just a matter of respect.

Re: The Dark Side Of Software Development That No One Talks About

#47

Post by badman_ting »

I have seen more of people being nice when they shouldn't. Perhaps on balance that's a better work environment, but I really don't like seeing subpar or even downright crappy work being overlooked because it would be mean to point out that it's crappy. The world is full of jerks. Being jerks is their problem, not yours. That's how I feel about it, anyway. Jerks don't hurt me, they hurt themselves.

Re: The Dark Side Of Software Development That No One Talks About

#48

Post by badman_ting »

xarien wrote: post #9

There's actually a method that works quite well in dealing with these "jerks." Ironically, it's the same tactic that men need to effectively communicate well with women. Here's the secret: acknowledge them. Acknowledgement doesn't mean you smile and nod nor does it involve using the sentence structure ..., but... Try to understand their perspective and communicate through that perspective. Instead of asking others to…

You have to be careful, though. If you let them control the frame you will never talk about what you actually want to talk about. Commandeering the structure of the conversation can be just as counterproductive as outright rudeness or hostility. Always be aware of the frame -- control the frame and you control the conversation. In business, in politics, in life.

Re: The Dark Side Of Software Development That No One Talks About

#49

Post by dnautics »

humanrebar wrote: post #42
dnautics wrote: post #22

One thing I wish this article talked about: Sometimes, people are brutally honest with little tact. If you're overly sensitive, you might think that such a person is being mean or being a jerk - but they have your best interests in mind , because they are telling you either a factual truth or an unvarnished personal opinion. The reason why they are brusque is not because 'they have been abused' but because, the toler…

Great points. Permit me to expand on them slightly. To some people, myself included, frank honesty is respectful. I could be alone here, but I can find passive-aggressiveness, needless euphemisms, and the like to be patronizing. Treating me with kid gloves is like saying, "I have an opinion, but I don't think you are emotionally mature enough to handle it in its raw form." It's important for "jerks" to be conscious o…

> "I have an opinion, but I don't think you are emotionally mature enough to handle it in its raw form."

exactly. That is how I feel when someone treats me with kid gloves.

Re: The Dark Side Of Software Development That No One Talks About

#50

Post by 6d0debc071 »

badman_ting wrote: post #47

I have seen more of people being nice when they shouldn't. Perhaps on balance that's a better work environment, but I really don't like seeing subpar or even downright crappy work being overlooked because it would be mean to point out that it's crappy. The world is full of jerks. Being jerks is their problem, not yours. That's how I feel about it, anyway. Jerks don't hurt me, they hurt themselves.

You can, nicely, ask if someone's considered doing it in another (better) way rather than pointing out that it's crappy.
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