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The Dark Side Of Software Development That No One Talks About

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Re: The Dark Side Of Software Development That No One Talks About

#31

Post by dnautics »

logjam wrote: post #28
dnautics wrote: post #22

One thing I wish this article talked about: Sometimes, people are brutally honest with little tact. If you're overly sensitive, you might think that such a person is being mean or being a jerk - but they have your best interests in mind , because they are telling you either a factual truth or an unvarnished personal opinion. The reason why they are brusque is not because 'they have been abused' but because, the toler…

Wrong. Tact, compassion, and honesty are not in any way incompatible. And no, people who think they are being "brutally honest" while forgetting compassion or even basic fucking manners are not doing so with others' best interests at heart. They are just being assholes. There are bonafide reasons for that behavior, and they deserve a measure of compassion themselves while receiving that message, but don't try gilding…

[maybe nsfw]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cV_q-mVAAA

Re: The Dark Side Of Software Development That No One Talks About

#32

Post by georgemcbay »

As has been mentioned already in this thread, jerks are in every profession. But after being a software developer for many years and being exposed to other industries both directly and from hearing about it from third parties, the jerkiness in software development is much more palatable to me (though I'm a software developer, so go figure).

In a lot of fields people will be very polite to your face while stabbing you in the back and turning the knife. In software the jerks are generally very upfront, showing far less "people skills" but at least showing you their cards. And while I like to think I've never been a jerk (you'd have to ask people who worked with me to be sure), I've noticed there tend to be two classes of jerks in software development and it may be important for you to try to recognize the distinction.

The first kind of jerk is the grumpy old coder who shoots down your idea to use the latest wiz-bang tech to rewrite your entire project for the next release. This guy has very little people skills and may not do a great job of explaining his position, so he seems to just be shooting you down for no reason. THIS GUY IS PROBABLY RIGHT, though. And his jerkiness comes from years of battle scars.

The second kind of jerk is the cocky (usually younger) developer who is sure he is right about every decision despite having limited real world experience. At first blush he looks like the other kind of jerk (except that he's probably younger). THIS GUY IS PROBABLY WRONG. And his jerkiness comes from a lack of real-world experience combined with an over-inflated sense of confidence coming out of the school years where he was the smartest guy in his school, but mixed with unacknowledged self doubt. Sometimes this kind of jerk grows up to be the first kind of jerk, but sometimes they remain the second kind of jerk.

Re: The Dark Side Of Software Development That No One Talks About

#33

Post by [deleted] »

dnautics wrote: post #22

One thing I wish this article talked about: Sometimes, people are brutally honest with little tact. If you're overly sensitive, you might think that such a person is being mean or being a jerk - but they have your best interests in mind , because they are telling you either a factual truth or an unvarnished personal opinion. The reason why they are brusque is not because 'they have been abused' but because, the toler…

[deleted]

Re: The Dark Side Of Software Development That No One Talks About

#34

Post by philbarr »

xarien wrote: post #18
itsallbs wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And some devs have the idea that they are Better Than You, no matter what your skill level or expertise. I'm a web dev and worked on a project recently with a lead who had just enough experience with web dev of the 90's to be dangerous. For example, he fought with me repeatedly about md5 being good enough for password hashing, while I wanted to use bcrypt (or at the very least, SHA1, even though it's almost as bad as…

It sounds like you cared more about being right than from seeing it from his perspective. Even if you ARE right (keep in mind that right is often incredibly subjective), it's far more important to understand why someone is taking the "wrong" stance. Now, I'm sure you felt quite a bit of frustration over this and possibly other arguments. I'm not trying to dismiss your feelings, but once you understand someone's persp…

Whilst I agree you should always try and see things from the other person's perspective, and that this method often works well, I do think some people - some select individuals are beyond reaching.

Like an old manager of mine who told one of my team members in her review, "I'm not giving you a pay rise, but it's not because you're black." I mean, what can you say to that? She was in tears. The guy was so self-centered he didn't even realise that the things he said might cause offence.

Re: The Dark Side Of Software Development That No One Talks About

#35

Post by losethos »

God likes bears and elephants.

This is disturbing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrHiEYGqnEk

Teenage males go off on their own. They fight. Thank God they do not gore each other with tusks. God is not a cruel God.

None-the-less males are quite expendable. When you think about it, World War I was no big deal.

I wonder about polygamy. That means lots of lone males.

----

My ego is hilariously large -- only I know God exists. Everybody is a huge retard.

God says... negligence Poland shared Monad deed this_might_end_badly sparrows relaxing Bangladesh cruelty believing talketh ancient churches wrought therefore *Portions ehheh_thats_all_folks energy manifested bickering healthful Ghana gaining

Re: The Dark Side Of Software Development That No One Talks About

#36

Post by eksith »

dnautics wrote: post #22

One thing I wish this article talked about: Sometimes, people are brutally honest with little tact. If you're overly sensitive, you might think that such a person is being mean or being a jerk - but they have your best interests in mind , because they are telling you either a factual truth or an unvarnished personal opinion. The reason why they are brusque is not because 'they have been abused' but because, the toler…

My bottle of Aspirin says, I should take 2 pills after meals. My cough syrup says, I should take one tablespoon before bed.

But something that will, potentially, save me from myself cannot be delivered with tact, compassion and restraint with no delicacy whatsoever with regard to my sensibilities?

If the advice someone gives me is not in the form I can ingest, then what they have done is pleasure themselves publicly at my expense.

This was advice. I hope what I wrote falls into a form that you found ingestible.

Re: The Dark Side Of Software Development That No One Talks About

#37

Post by philbarr »

wahsd wrote: post #10

I have found that the more loudmouth and jerk-like the person is, the more they are covering up the realization that what they have/do is not all that unique, significant, or otherwise difficult yet rather comfortable and lucrative. Thus, they feel compelled to loud mouth barking and posturing to protect their bone. It's probably the same kind of mentality of a dog that snarls at his owner that just put down a bowl o…

If a dog snarls at their owner then that's a badly trained dog. I recommend this book if you have a badly behaved dog [1], or any dog good or bad actually.

1. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Dog-Listener-Jan-Fennell/dp/00065323...

Re: The Dark Side Of Software Development That No One Talks About

#38

Post by altcognito »

georgemcbay wrote: post #32

As has been mentioned already in this thread, jerks are in every profession. But after being a software developer for many years and being exposed to other industries both directly and from hearing about it from third parties, the jerkiness in software development is much more palatable to me (though I'm a software developer, so go figure). In a lot of fields people will be very polite to your face while stabbing you…

Strong opinions, weakly held. Be vocal if you think you have a case or don't understand. Stay professional, don't make it personal and you should be ok.

Re: The Dark Side Of Software Development That No One Talks About

#39

Post by jnbiche »

xarien wrote: post #18
itsallbs wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And some devs have the idea that they are Better Than You, no matter what your skill level or expertise. I'm a web dev and worked on a project recently with a lead who had just enough experience with web dev of the 90's to be dangerous. For example, he fought with me repeatedly about md5 being good enough for password hashing, while I wanted to use bcrypt (or at the very least, SHA1, even though it's almost as bad as…

It sounds like you cared more about being right than from seeing it from his perspective. Even if you ARE right (keep in mind that right is often incredibly subjective), it's far more important to understand why someone is taking the "wrong" stance. Now, I'm sure you felt quite a bit of frustration over this and possibly other arguments. I'm not trying to dismiss your feelings, but once you understand someone's persp…

Could it be that he didn't care more about being right, but rather didn't want his name attached to a project using deprecated crypto standards? Or that he genuinely cared about his customer's data security and privacy?

To me, he sounds like someone who's very defensive about a topic at work because of the conflict involved. And until I have reason to believe otherwise, I'll assume it's because of one of the two reasons I mentioned above (or both).

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