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I want the NBN

iwantthenbn.com

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Re: I want the NBN

#21

Post by dagw »

wernah wrote: post #17
chris_wot wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I know. I even signed it. They won't ever do it. That would involve logic and a basic grasp of technology.

I find it rather scary that they write policies on things they don't understand, or want to.

Don't worry. Chances are they leave the actual writing of policies to powerful think tanks and lobby groups that understand that situation perfectly (and then cynically exploit it for maximum profit for whoever is backing them). All the politicians do is push the policy and sign it into law.

Re: I want the NBN

#22

Post by 3825 »

peterkelly wrote: post #20

Step 1 (now): Fibre to the node Step 2 (later, on an incremental basis): Fibre to the home Why do we need to do both steps at the same time? The last mile is incredibly expensive and difficult (as the slow rollout of Labour's scheme has demonstrated). Doing fibre to the node now doesn't stop us from having it to the home at a later point in time, as demands increase.

Please do not be misinformed. The last mile is a very contentious issue. What incentive does Telstra have to share the infrastructure to the last mile with some scrappy upstart?

Re: I want the NBN

#23

Post by sirkumi »

wernah wrote: post #17
chris_wot wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I know. I even signed it. They won't ever do it. That would involve logic and a basic grasp of technology.

I find it rather scary that they write policies on things they don't understand, or want to.

Welcome to modern democracy, where the people who win elections are really only knowledgeable about and good at winning elections...

Re: I want the NBN

#24

Post by jacques_chester »

jpau wrote: post #8

I do really want the NBN to be the best it can be, but I really really really want a proper debate about the issue. Arguments should not be as one-sided as either "the Coalition's plan is crap, because it's slower" or "Labor's plan is crap, because it costs more". Instead, the debate needs to be about whether or not the extra speed is worth the cost. We aren't currently seeing this sort of debate. The Coalition says…

> Why are we not seeing a proper debate on this issue?

There are two reasons.

First is the coalition, who started on the wrong footing: arguing about technology choice. This made it pretty easy for the ALP to take attention away from the project itself.

Second is a vocal band of people who want super fast internet, dammit. Now that it has been promised, there is a constituency for it. Public debt seems rather abstract and besides, the NBNco promises that it's all going to be profitable somehow (without actually releasing their modelling to the public).

As a properly-run public infrastructure project over a decade or 15 years it could have been the envy of the world. Instead we are going to get something that will be an expensive mess, no matter how you slice it.

Re: I want the NBN

#25

Post by crazytony »

jpau wrote: post #8

I do really want the NBN to be the best it can be, but I really really really want a proper debate about the issue. Arguments should not be as one-sided as either "the Coalition's plan is crap, because it's slower" or "Labor's plan is crap, because it costs more". Instead, the debate needs to be about whether or not the extra speed is worth the cost. We aren't currently seeing this sort of debate. The Coalition says…

"Instead, the debate needs to be about whether or not the extra speed is worth the cost."

How about this: the coalitions plan is crap because it provides less service and less future adaptability at almost three times the unit cost.

$44.1b/100mbps estimated FTTH = $0.441b/mbps $29.5b/25mbps estimated FTTN = $1.18b/mbps

The numbers get even worse for the coalition when you factor in an additional $2B to the NBN plan to move everyone from 100mbps to 1000mbps.

Your analogy of town water vs tank water is not relevant as the plan is not to provide the same service (ie fibre) to all areas. That debate happened 3-4 years ago and has been NBN policy for almost as long. Fibre in dense areas, Wimax in less dense areas and satellite in rural settings. Wider roads exist for more capacity but I guarantee your parents farm has at least one road around it. That is what the change.org petition is talking about.

The problem we're running in to is our physical plant (the copper) is antiquated in standard and age. The coalition has loved talking up how bad the plant is as a negative for the NBN plan (asbestos boxes and viaducts, tree roots, electrical shorts, flooding, etc).

The NBN has planned and has budgeted to replace this plant with newer, modern equipment and techniques.

The coalition plan attempts to bend reality and ignore the dilapidated state of most of the inner city/suburban Telstra equipment. Instead they are going to buy 60,000+ new DSLAMs and just magically integrate them without having to deal with 50 years of bad maintenance.

Re: I want the NBN

#26

Post by dbaupp »

chewxy wrote: post #18
devnetfx wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am in Australia and these acronyms are not well understood by the public. Luckily jdaley explained these well in his comments above.

This is exactly the problem. Also, the vox populi interviews in newspaper from older people saying "25 mbps is fast enough" makes me rage so hard. Oh, 25 Mbps is fast enough? So if I were to offer you $25 or $1000 which would you take? Ugh. The NBN is a good idea, but poorly sold to the older generation who cannot seem to grasp the idea of its importance,

> 25 mbps is fast enough

Of course it's fast enough! You can fill your entire 640 kB of RAM (who needs that much anyway?) in 200ms with that raw speed.

Re: I want the NBN

#27

Post by shelf »

chris_wot wrote: post #9
korynunn wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Read the message at the top of the site, it is a petition to the libs.

Yeah, I know. I even signed it. They won't ever do it. That would involve logic and a basic grasp of technology.

Given they mostly have business / law / academic backgrounds, I am not sure that anybody has ever put the case for fibre speeds to the Libs in terms other than 'this is what people want, and it is good.' The use cases used in Labor promotions were patronising to the extreme. Don't be surprised that they've concluded it is simply a 'nice thing' that people want but will loathe paying for.

To be honest with you, the things I am planning to do when I get a gigabit line are not exactly in the 'nation-building' category, either. I'm not sure how to fix that PR problem.

Re: I want the NBN

#28

Post by Cameron_D »

peterkelly wrote: post #20

Step 1 (now): Fibre to the node Step 2 (later, on an incremental basis): Fibre to the home Why do we need to do both steps at the same time? The last mile is incredibly expensive and difficult (as the slow rollout of Labour's scheme has demonstrated). Doing fibre to the node now doesn't stop us from having it to the home at a later point in time, as demands increase.

> Why do we need to do both steps at the same time? The last mile is incredibly expensive and difficult

Well, it does work out cheaper in the long run, doing FTTN now involves buying the copper from Telstra, then later on pulling it out and replacing it with fibre. This article does a nice job of going into more details on the costs of it: http://theconversation.com/can-australia-afford-the-coalitio...

> as the slow rollout of Labour's scheme has demonstrated

I can't really comment as I haven't been paying a lot of attention to the rollout progress, but this may be worth a read: http://delimiter.com.au/2013/09/05/factcheck-will-nbn-take-a...

Re: I want the NBN

#29

Post by Cameron_D »

korynunn wrote: post #16
jschuur wrote: post #3

The top of the page tells me nothing about what they're campaigning for. FTTN? NBN? FTTH? English people. English! I'm not even sure if this is a parody. The Liberal Party of Australia: Reconsider your plan for a 'FTTN' NBN in favour of a superior 'FTTH' NBN Australia needs the right NBN. Vote at change.org if you agree!

Yay for Github, Someone else did this for me.

You're welcome :)

Re: I want the NBN

#30

Post by jellicle »

kaliblack wrote: post #12
jschuur wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yes, I realize the change.org site has more details. But once again, the whole top of that page has no actual info in the title except a bunch of acronyms.

In Australia, where this petition is relevant, these acronyms are well understood by the public and don't need further explanation.

That's grossly and utterly wrong. I'll bet if I interviewed 100 people on the street, maybe 10 would have any idea what this page was about.

This is an important lesson for ANY sort of activism or public outreach (or marketing): people know a LOT less about your area of concern than you think they do.

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