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'Titstare' app at TechCrunch: women in tech deserve better

theguardian.com

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Re: 'Titstare' app at TechCrunch: women in tech deserve better

#61

Post by wsc981 »

chris_wot wrote: post #24
jnardiello wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me understand, anything sex-related which isn't expressed in scientific or moral terms has to burn in hell, right? Mainly because it is "objectifying" and insulting. Sometimes having a good laugh is a lot smarter than creating a political situation out of nothing. I think this is the case.

"Titstare" was designed to allow men stare at women's breasts. In other words, for one reason only: objectification of women and their body parts. If you can't see that here, I'm not sure what else to say to you!

If there was a hypothetical "dickstare" app for woman (to objectify men and their body parts) I wouldn't make a big deal of it.

Seems to me a lot of woman do objectify men. For example when I'm browsing the Dutch Viva forums, there are plenty of topics on so called "fuck buddies". Male friends that are not relationship material but good enough for sex.

Some topics from the last few weeks are:

* Traineeship Suriname[1]: a topic about a Dutch girl that is going for a traineeship in Suriname and she has a certain fetish for black people and is mainly interested in having sex with said people.

* Do you have a fuck buddy[2]: an inquiry of which readers from the forums have a fuck buddy.

Another example could be some Coca-Cola commercials [3][4]. Do we feel (as men) offended by how these commercials objectify our gender?

[1]: http://forum.viva.nl/forum/Seks/Stage_Suriname/list_messages...

[2]: http://forum.viva.nl/forum/Seks/Fuckbuddy/list_messages/2030...

[3]: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7AqpFcgTqQ

[4]: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6Sre-wpGHE

Re: 'Titstare' app at TechCrunch: women in tech deserve better

#62

Post by partoa »

marvin wrote: post #37
jnardiello wrote: post #8

Frankly, TitStare was quite funny. In despite of being tits-related, i can't see how a woman could find it offensive (maybe because she has tits too? i can't see the correlation). It's more about lonely developers staring at tits. It's funny to see how the tech industry is passing thru its "feminist" age and just can't understand that THERE ARE differences between men and women, which doesn't mean anyhow that one is…

Really? It's impossible for you to see how women at a tech conference could get the impression that they aren't valued for their ideas and skills when an app to look at tits gets a prominent spot? I sometimes think that the persistent claims of sex discrimination in tech are a bit over-the-top, but in this instance it's quite obvious. This stunt was very poorly thought out.

What does titstare have to do with not valuing women for anything other than their tits? Pardon me for asking.

Re: 'Titstare' app at TechCrunch: women in tech deserve better

#63

Post by chris_wot »

fractalsea wrote: post #40
chris_wot wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rubbish. It was about objectifying women. It had nothing to do with lonely developers. These were two boofhead Australians who sadly exist in my part of the world who used women's bodies as a joke so they could get a quick laugh. There are too many "men" like this in Sydney. I use the word "men" loosely.

And to me this sounds as racist as any casual sexism I hear in the workplace. Why did you need to re-iterate -- in a negative manner -- that they were Australians, and that this somehow explains their behaviour? OK -- I wrote that before realising that you are also living in Australia (and I assume a male citizen), but I'm still not sure that makes it any better...

I didn't say all Australians are boofheads. I said some Australians are boofheads. And I never said it explains or condones their behaviour that they are Australians. Doesn't help stereotypes!

Yes, I am an Australian male :-)

Re: 'Titstare' app at TechCrunch: women in tech deserve better

#64

Post by brodo »

lifebeyondfife wrote: post #23
jnardiello wrote: post #8

Frankly, TitStare was quite funny. In despite of being tits-related, i can't see how a woman could find it offensive (maybe because she has tits too? i can't see the correlation). It's more about lonely developers staring at tits. It's funny to see how the tech industry is passing thru its "feminist" age and just can't understand that THERE ARE differences between men and women, which doesn't mean anyhow that one is…

You need to learn that what is considered (possibly socially) acceptable behaviour amongst your friends, is not necessarily acceptable in the workplace. If you want a definition of the workplace, it includes hacker meetups, youtube videos, presentations etc. where people of all social groups come together to discuss or create code. I have a very twisted sense of humour that many would find offensive. At work though I…

I don't want to spend 8 hours a day in a sterile humorless environment where everyone is scared to say something wrong on the off chance that someone might get offended. Moreover the old work/free time duality is dying. People work form home and do non-work stuff at work.

Re: 'Titstare' app at TechCrunch: women in tech deserve better

#65

Post by pstack »

jnardiello wrote: post #8

Frankly, TitStare was quite funny. In despite of being tits-related, i can't see how a woman could find it offensive (maybe because she has tits too? i can't see the correlation). It's more about lonely developers staring at tits. It's funny to see how the tech industry is passing thru its "feminist" age and just can't understand that THERE ARE differences between men and women, which doesn't mean anyhow that one is…

Let me preface this by saying that I'm frustrated on a regular basis by the claim that everything is sexist, because labeling someone who isn't with that word can be just as harmful. Especially in the tech industry and gaming and geekery. Even more, I'm put off by the almost constant misuse of the word "misogyny". It is never used for what the word really means. It just sounds good, so people throw it around.

However, as thick headed and unapologetically thick-skinned I assert myself to be and expect others to be, I can absolutely see why women would have a problem with this in this particular environment.

Let me present a really shoddy analogy (but it's all I've got at the moment):

I am obese. I attend a tech conference full of professionals in my industry. Friends, colleagues, potential connections, people I admire. Someone then comes on stage and does a presentation about fat people. It's an app that focuses on how fat people are. For humor. And they attempt to make a lot of humor about it. And the audience around me is laughing.

Now, I'm super fat. I'm more than aware of that. I know that people around me are, too. I have a good sense of humor. I'm even happy to make myself the ass-end of a joke about my weight. However, when I am in a huge room full of people laughing at a presentation making light of people like me, I suddenly feel incredibly awkward, self-aware, embarrassed, and like I'm not wanted there. Maybe that I don't even belong there. So, I stop going. I stop supporting. I stop participating.

It's all about context and having a little tact. These guys used pretty poor judgement. I don't think they should be strung up or driven out of town for it. They should just be an example of how people with no ill-intentions can end up making other people really uncomfortable and how that is something you need to be sensitive to when acting in any professionally related capacity.

Re: 'Titstare' app at TechCrunch: women in tech deserve better

#66

Post by hexscrews »

This was both a massive waste of time and effort. A truly interesting app would be one that measures facial symmetry. Humans tend to appreciate symmetrical features, same length of arms, legs, eye alignment, etc. I can see where this too could be abused, sadly. But at least it would have a marginally better chance to have a market. And it would provide a interesting technical challenge.

Re: 'Titstare' app at TechCrunch: women in tech deserve better

#67

Post by Grue3 »

sambeau wrote: post #28
Grue3 wrote: post #4

What is sexist about CircleShake? It's not about women at all.

It's not about women at all. sigh In an already male-biased community the non-inclusivity of demos like these put out a very specific message to women: this is not for you . The tit staring demo puts out a worse message: this is not for you—you are just a sex object to us . If you were a female hacker how would that make you feel your work will be judged by your male peers? Turn it around in your head, if you can, to…

>In an already male-biased community the non-inclusivity of demos like these put out a very specific message to women: this is not for you.

It's just one demo. And it's ok for an app to be not for any specific sex, not that there's any reason why women can't play CircleShake. Not every app should be for everyone.

And I agree that TitStare is terrible. I just don't understand why the completely unrelated app is brought up in the article.

Re: 'Titstare' app at TechCrunch: women in tech deserve better

#68

Post by chris_wot »

laichzeit0 wrote: post #59
chris_wot wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Titstare" was designed to allow men stare at women's breasts. In other words, for one reason only: objectification of women and their body parts. If you can't see that here, I'm not sure what else to say to you!

What if, let's just make this hypothetical for a second, woman want men to stare at their breasts? Would you still have an issue?

Where you are going with this is so ridiculous I won't be responding, other than with this response!

Re: 'Titstare' app at TechCrunch: women in tech deserve better

#69

Post by pstack »

lifebeyondfife wrote: post #23
jnardiello wrote: post #8

Frankly, TitStare was quite funny. In despite of being tits-related, i can't see how a woman could find it offensive (maybe because she has tits too? i can't see the correlation). It's more about lonely developers staring at tits. It's funny to see how the tech industry is passing thru its "feminist" age and just can't understand that THERE ARE differences between men and women, which doesn't mean anyhow that one is…

You need to learn that what is considered (possibly socially) acceptable behaviour amongst your friends, is not necessarily acceptable in the workplace. If you want a definition of the workplace, it includes hacker meetups, youtube videos, presentations etc. where people of all social groups come together to discuss or create code. I have a very twisted sense of humour that many would find offensive. At work though I…

In short, there is nothing wrong with the comedy of, say, Chris Rock, but it would probably not be a good fit for a professional working environment. Even if outside of that working environment every single person there would be laughing along with his vulgar set.

What these guys did can be both a poor choice and not wrong.

Re: 'Titstare' app at TechCrunch: women in tech deserve better

#70

Post by laichzeit0 »

chris_wot wrote: post #68
laichzeit0 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if, let's just make this hypothetical for a second, woman want men to stare at their breasts? Would you still have an issue?

Where you are going with this is so ridiculous I won't be responding, other than with this response!

It's not ridiculous at all. It's one of the fundamental assumptions you're making in all your arguments but unwilling to put down as an axiom.
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