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An Apology From TechCrunch

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Re: An Apology From TechCrunch

#151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope, intent isn't magic. http://genderbitch.wordpress.com/2010/01/23/intent-its-fucki... And puerile male humor is often intended to drive women away from the boys' club.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mens_rea intent isn't magical but it is legally meaningful. if our laws recognize that intent matters maybe you ought to also.

So if I drive drunk and mow down a few people... I'm fine as long as I didn't mean to kill people after driving drunk?

Intent doesn't always matter, and in this case of puerile humor it doesn't matter.

The world could be 99% white, and if I spoke from the perspective of a white person, as if white people are God's gift to humans, I'd be insensitive to the 1% of non-white people. I'd be instilling in the minds of non-white children growing up thinking somehow they are worth less, and are lesser human beings. The whole point of political correctness is that you don't have to actively say negative things about other people, races, or religions to have a negative effect on them.

I may not have intended it because of ignorance. I may not have intended it because I have never met a non-white person, and everyone I've met has not been offended by it. But that does not mean my actions are without real consequences to non-white people who happen to hear me when passing by, or from normalizing this action so that later other white people end up adopting this attitude in front of non-white people.

The titstare app is pure and simple objectification of women. That 9 year old programmer is coming into an industry and shown that the most interesting thing about her will probably be trumped by her breasts. She's being placed into a culture she can't genuinely adopt (unless she's bisexual or lesbian) because she's not a man. This is alienation. It may not be intentional, but it does have negative effects due to ignorance.

Re: An Apology From TechCrunch

#152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Desperately trying to escape the shittiness of your life through drug abuse, and from there getting into prostitution, is still desperation. Say what you will about respect, but I find it disgusting that our society demeans women by congratulating them for entering sex work as a profession. ("Oh good for you, you made a free choice to take off your panties for me! What a sweet little empowered capitalist you are!") T…

Say what you will about personal choice, but I find it empowering that our society enables women by letting them them freely enter sex work as a profession. ^ See what I did there? You believe sex workers are homeless druggies, I believe they are efficient businesswomen. The truth probably lies somewhere in between. At some point, it basically becomes your personal views about exchanging sex for money, and the morali…

Of course morality is personal, what else would it be?

Re: An Apology From TechCrunch

#153
post #8

I think one of two things happened. The first is TechCrunch simply didn't screen the hacks being presented in any way before they went up on stage. The second is they did screen them, but whoever did the screening had no problem with the two problematic submissions. It's pretty clear to me the latter was has occurred, for a number of reasons. Firstly, the language in the apology refers to a failure to "properly scree…

This is the list of hacks. No one had a "tit..." anything. https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B9ROtg3duDfzZG8tMERW...

Re: An Apology From TechCrunch

#154
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope you're joking. Besides the flurry of tech presenters and writers in the audience that were offended, a nine year old girl was at TechCrunch Disrupt demonstrating a product. Seeing as TCDisrupt isn't marketed as an 18+ event, it should be held to the same standards as any other public, professional gathering of individuals. Judging by TechCrunch's reaction, they wholeheartedly agree.

IMHO both apps are tacky, however, I feel the whole thing is clearly a joke that some people found funny and some didn't. In any event, I feel the whole thing has been blown out of proportion. I watched the videos and, while the Circle Shake presentation was cringeworthy, it was very mildly sexual at a conference that's aimed at adults, not children. There will have been people in the audience swearing in casual conv…

The straight women will still be alienated. It's not as if as long as you're not alienating some women (bi and gay) that it's fine.

It also objectifies women. They're propagating the belief that women are only interesting as objects of men's sexual desires.

They don't have to explicitly do something sexist or racist to have a negative effect. Sometimes negative effect can simply be achieved by inaction or mis-action (action that isn't explicitly wrong, but has overarching negative effects).

The reason why you probably won't be offended by "ManButtStare" is because such a thing rarely if ever happens. You are in a male-dominated tech industry already so you don't feel alienation from that trivial instance of female-centric thinking. The problem with Titstare is it adds (in the wrong direction) to compounding attitudes of male-centric thinking and a male-centric industry, with negative consequences of alienation of straight female participants. This is a negative because there will be suboptimal appropriation of female talent into this sector due to alienation. More and more females will just end up going into fashion or art or English literature so they can join their gay, metrosexual, and non-sexist bffs.

See how I stereotyped fashion as dominated by gay men? Perhaps it is, but by promoting that attitude, I probably just added a little bit there to discourage a straight guy from going into fashion even though he may be good at it. That is bad.

Re: An Apology From TechCrunch

#155
post #47

I've always wondered why in the US everyone loses their shit over a tittie app, but in Europe you can have billboards containing nothing but naked breasts advertising a conference. Source: http://metro.co.uk/2009/09/11/giant-boobs-advert-turns-heads... Related question: would everyone lose their shit if the app was called GuyStare and was aimed at women to look at hot guys?

I'm always amazed about how puritan is United States.

Re: An Apology From TechCrunch

#156
post #63

I watched the two presentations via the valleywag page others have cited. The problem I see with TechCrunch's apology is that they are mixing up terminology. I don't think either presentation was sexist and especially not misogynstic - what they were was sexual. Modern society has a similar problem distinguishing between racist humor and racial humor. While there certainly can be overlap between -ist and -ual humor,…

You're right that it was "sexual". However, I'm not sure that the industry has enough average maturity to handle frank discussions of sexuality, especially in big, diverse groups. Given the demographics of the industry, I don't think it was an accident that it was "TitStare" rather than "DongStare" or "CockStare". I'm sure you could imagine that the nature of the app might make the women in the audience feel a bit od…

the nature of the app might make the women in the audience feel a bit odd, that the big punchline was an app about looking at their breasts.

The app was about photos of men staring at breasts, not about actually looking at breasts - the butt of the joke were the men who selfishly stereotype women as being defined by their breasts and act as if their breasts are there for men (e.g. the reference to the recent news story that looking at breasts makes men more healthy even if women don't appreciate being reduced to an object that makes men more healthy).

> why not "DongStare"

Because it is very common for people (plenty of women have also internalized this behavior) to stereotype women based on their breasts, but it is orders of magnitude less common for people to stereotype men by the bulge in their pants. The joke was about the people who do the stereotyping not about the anatomy itself.

Re: An Apology From TechCrunch

#157
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd love to hear what you think are the salient differences between getting up and presenting Titstare, and showing something fictitious like "N-watcher" Evidently your reaction if someone got up to present the latter would not be "LOL guys loosen up!" -- even though you are not someone at whom the humor/offense is targeted. Why the difference in attitude?

The problem with that comparison is that I can easily imagine some spoof "Racial Profiler!" app being showcased as a joke. Perhaps an app that allows Atherton residents to report "suspicious" behavior. But I guess the larger lesson here is: do not try these things unless you're The Onion, SNL, or Key and Peele.

I mean, this http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2013/09/the-re... was not comedy and it happend all of a few days ago.

Re: An Apology From TechCrunch

#158

Are people actually outraged? Since when did hacker culture take such a large turn toward political correctness?

Hacker culture is growing up on stuff like Heinlein articulating non-monogamy and other departures from the mainstream. This is just the plague of the professionally offended drawn in because software is big business now, and the crimethink-seeking drones employers must appoint just to avoid being sued into oblivion.

Re: An Apology From TechCrunch

#159
post #47

I've always wondered why in the US everyone loses their shit over a tittie app, but in Europe you can have billboards containing nothing but naked breasts advertising a conference. Source: http://metro.co.uk/2009/09/11/giant-boobs-advert-turns-heads... Related question: would everyone lose their shit if the app was called GuyStare and was aimed at women to look at hot guys?

anecdotal evidence in Slovenia != general truth in Europe

Re: An Apology From TechCrunch

#160
post #47

I've always wondered why in the US everyone loses their shit over a tittie app, but in Europe you can have billboards containing nothing but naked breasts advertising a conference. Source: http://metro.co.uk/2009/09/11/giant-boobs-advert-turns-heads... Related question: would everyone lose their shit if the app was called GuyStare and was aimed at women to look at hot guys?

anecdotal evidence in Slovenia != general truth in Europe

Does it count Spain, France, Germany, Netherlands or Italy as Europe?
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