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Left with Nothing

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Left with Nothing

#251

Post by xsmasher »

larrys wrote: post #40
citricsquid wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article talks about the real problem: fundamentally you're right, these people should have paid their bills, the problem is they're not given an opportunity to properly make up for their mistakes and the "punishment" does not fit the "crime". After the bill isn't paid the lien is sold to investors who increase the owed amount by an order of magnitude (so that the person really can't pay it now) and drag them thro…

"After the bill isn't paid the lien is sold to investors who increase the owed amount by an order of magnitude " What is the time period that that happens though? Isn't that an important factor in all of this? Plays out over years? How many chances (and over what time period) could the homeowner have been able to rectify for a more reasonable amount of money? Not disagreeing with your main point or that the punishmen…

So the owner goes delinquent on taxes for a year, then gets multiple notices that a tax sale will take place, then the tax sale takes place, then they have six MORE months to make good on the bill... then a hideous, unforeseen tragedy takes their home away overnight.

That's why the examples are all of people who were absent or had medical problems - because there are multiple opportunities to correct the problem.

Re: Left with Nothing

#252

Post by aptwebapps »

grellas wrote: post #208

Tax enforcement schemes are conceived, enacted, and executed by governments because they have a monopoly over the taxing power. If private profiteers are allowed to exploit local citizens, it is strictly because the entity holding that power has deliberately chosen to set up an enforcement scheme that arms those predators with everything they need to conduct their exploitation. The vultures, despicable as they are, w…

Exactly. There is an unending supply of vultures, as you describe them, to take advantage of these situations. The only real solution is for the government to stop staking people out in the sun for the sake of modest savings.

Re: Left with Nothing

#253

Post by snitko »

wpietri wrote: post #249
snitko wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No difference. Why do US citizens have to pay for wars and killing a great number of innocent people in them, or Guantanamo, or NSA, or TSA... when the majority clearly opposes it? Democracy is a nice myth, which gives surfs a false feeling of satisfaction and control, obscuring the reality, which is that you are being robbed. "You can always leave", as has been noted before, is another myth: yes, spend 5-6 years on…

I certainly grant that things are not perfect here. Regarding your particular questions, in May 2003, 79% of Americans thought the Iraq war was justified, so the majority clearly didn't oppose it. Most now believe it was a mistake. Only 41% of citizens agree with the president's plan to close Guantanamo. A majority of Americans think the TSA is doing a good job. I think the majority of Americans are wrong on all of t…

Fine, you feel you're not being robbed. I know quite a few people from the US who feel that taxes are theft. Granted you agree they have the freedom to believe in whatever they want, how do you justify the fact that if they don't pay taxes, they will go to prison (not right away, but eventually, if they decide to resist, even if peacefully) or have their property alienated? Democracy isn't the answer, because they don't believe in one. If you say they have to pay because they use services a government provides, then it's also very debatable: they certainly may not want to pay for some of them (military?) and surely they don't have any alternative because government monopolistic behavior prevents any competition in certain sectors of the economy. Saying they have this freedom to believe in whatever they want when they don't have the same freedom to act according to their beliefs is identical to not granting them any freedom at all.

Re: Left with Nothing

#254

Post by toomuchtodo »

rayiner wrote: post #183
jnardiello wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which still seems totally fine and fair, right? Great, keep up with the great job!

The alternative is for the district to carry the burden of foreclosing, which costs taxpayers money (foreclosures are involved to protect homeowners) or alternatively just forgiving the tax debts of Alzheimer's patients. These foreclosure don't just happen one day. They happen after six months of warnings, letters, phone calls, etc.

The burden? Excuse me? That's their job. I'm sorry there is a cost associated with doing your job.

If you're prepared to outsource that job and have the private sector do it extremely poorly and with no regulation, thereby effectively raping people of their wealth over a pittance, you should be prepared to pay the consequence for that.

Re: Left with Nothing

#255

Post by toomuchtodo »

gutnor wrote: post #236
rayiner wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you think was happening in the months and months before the lien sale happened? There were a million opportunities to avoid the whole process through a straightforward administrative process, no lawyers involved.

That assumes you are still capable to follow that process. Apparently the current procedure does not take your present circumstances into account. (like mild dementia, alzeihmer, nursing home example in the article) In Europe, once you get too incapacitated to take care of your stuff, social security take you in charge. After you die, they repossess your property and sell them to recover their cost. What's left is th…

>but profiteering of the weak is certainly not an american value.

Clearly, yes, it has become that. Each day, I become more ashamed of where I live.

Re: Left with Nothing

#256

Post by toomuchtodo »

cletus wrote: post #35

Well there are two issues here. The first is that laws that allow this to happen are scandalous. Worst case, particularly for the elderly, is that a lien is placed on the home such that it must be paid when the home is transferred in any way. So what if DC has to wait 10 years for $137 mistakenly not paid? Seriously. Unless the debt exceeds some nontrivial amount, the county should be restricted from taking any actio…

Sir or mam, I don't know you, but you're my kind of people.

Re: Left with Nothing

#257

Post by snitko »

wpietri wrote: post #249
snitko wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No difference. Why do US citizens have to pay for wars and killing a great number of innocent people in them, or Guantanamo, or NSA, or TSA... when the majority clearly opposes it? Democracy is a nice myth, which gives surfs a false feeling of satisfaction and control, obscuring the reality, which is that you are being robbed. "You can always leave", as has been noted before, is another myth: yes, spend 5-6 years on…

I certainly grant that things are not perfect here. Regarding your particular questions, in May 2003, 79% of Americans thought the Iraq war was justified, so the majority clearly didn't oppose it. Most now believe it was a mistake. Only 41% of citizens agree with the president's plan to close Guantanamo. A majority of Americans think the TSA is doing a good job. I think the majority of Americans are wrong on all of t…

As a side note: you feeling that you're not being robbed has nothing to do with what actually happens, which is extracting money by a threat of force. You may not think about it this way, but it becomes painfully obvious once someone refuses to pay. To me, the refusal to see this is akin to a Stockholm Syndrome. No offense though, I did not mean to discard your argument using this comparison. I may add this is what it looks like to me subjectively.

Re: Left with Nothing

#258

Post by toomuchtodo »

muzz wrote: post #211
will_brown wrote: post #54

Ironically, a lot of houses owned by banks as a result of foreclosures ("REOs") are in turn getting foreclosed for failure to pay taxes and HOA fees. Banks were/are not equipped to manage the number of properties they own as a result of foreclosures and they lack the basic infrastructure to maintain these properties not limited to paying taxes and HOA fees, but violations of certain civil statutes like failing to mai…

Yeah because banks have no experience with things called Impound or Escrow accounts...

Large servicers (Bank Of America, Chase, Wells Fargo) already have a known history of mistakenly foreclosing on the wrong houses, fucking up tax payments from escrow accounts causing legal problems for the homeowner's, etc.

My father and step-mother both are mortgage underwriters. One is currently still underwriting, the other is currently working for the GSEs (Fannie and Freddie) forcing several large banks to eat the shitty mortgages they pushed on them.

I can not even begin to tell you how poorly managed these large servicers are. But heh, keep on thinking they know what they're doing. If they service your mortgage, I encourage you to keep a very careful on your note.

Re: Left with Nothing

#259

Post by toomuchtodo »

a8da6b0c91d wrote: post #200
downandout wrote: post #191

I'm all for making money, but this seems predatory and downright evil. Under no circumstances should someone be able to foreclose on a property because they hold a lien for less than 1/1000th of the value of the property, then take all of the equity. According to the article, this is only allowed in a small handful of jurisdictions - most require the proceeds above the amount owed to be passed along to the owner. It'…

I would like to know the names and a little background on the people involved in these practices. Why doesn't the article name names? Who owns and works at Heartwood and Aeon Financial? Who are these people at the tax office facilitating the practices?

Aeon Financial, LLC, aka CapitalSource Bank

http://www.ilsos.gov/corporatellc/CorporateLlcController?com...

I'm not quite sure what the HN policy is on personal details, but you can find the individual whose name is on the ownership of Aeon Financial on court documents across the US for tax lien purchases.

It appears this document that appeared in a google search indicates that staff at CapitalSource were trying to separate the tax lien operation from the business by operating under the DBA Aeon Financial: http://www.delaney2012.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/09-07-...

Google "capitalsource bank fbo aeon financial" for a wealth of results.

Re: Left with Nothing

#260

Post by chii »

grellas wrote: post #208

Tax enforcement schemes are conceived, enacted, and executed by governments because they have a monopoly over the taxing power. If private profiteers are allowed to exploit local citizens, it is strictly because the entity holding that power has deliberately chosen to set up an enforcement scheme that arms those predators with everything they need to conduct their exploitation. The vultures, despicable as they are, w…

i don't get why the law is so coarse - why a lien worth less than the value of the house can be used to forclose the house?!

I understand if the value of the lien/debt is equal or greater than the value of the house. Otherwise, it's just like the article claims - highway robbery.

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