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Left with Nothing

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Left with Nothing

#111

Post by bilbo0s »

hansjorg wrote: post #83
afterburner wrote: post #31

The logical outcome of this kind of predatory practice should be that the "investor" (the purchaser of the liens) gets $5000 out of the $197,000 sale, and the debtor gets $192,000. And even that seem predatory, never mind getting all the equity and forcing the person out of their place of residence.

I have a hard time believing this story. If it actually is true, the local government in DC is beyond corrupt.

"...the local government in DC..."

That might be part of the problem... they really don't have much local government. Congress holds sway in DC. When I lived in Glover Park I thought it was one of the strangest systems I had ever seen. Never really quite understood it completely.

Re: Left with Nothing

#112

Post by derleth »

staccatomeasure wrote: post #102
jamieb wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

when someone gets your $197,000 house for $134, they can sell it for $71,000 and take $6000 in legal fees, interest etc, as documented in the article. The owner loses $130,000. Don't be surprised if the person buying the house for $71,000 is in on the game too.

This problem is indicative of how screwed up our legal system is. Lawyers harass regular folks at-will as most people have no recourse (i.e. money to hire their own lawyer, or knowledge of the expanding and complicated laws). Two ways I can think of fixing it - one is offering simple, straightforward hearings in front of a judge with the power to use their own judgement (instead of relying on overly-specific, exploit…

> a judge with the power to use their own judgement (instead of relying on overly-specific, exploitable laws);

Yes, because a single corrupt or idiotic or assholic judge should be able to ruin lives left and right without regard for the law.

> the other is to implement some counterbalance punitive fee for wrongly harassing citizens - something that decreases the profit ratio for predators and makes defending people in otherwise unprofitable cases profitable.

And you have another system to game, another way for the scummy lawyers to beat people over the head to prevent their crimes from being punished.

Re: Left with Nothing

#113

Post by wpietri »

snitko wrote: post #6

And yet I still see people saying "no, how dare you compare government to a bunch of thieves?".

And they should keep saying that. I agree that some portion of government operations are dubious. I believe the portion is pretty small. The people I know who work in government are there because they want to make a difference. They would be just as outraged by this as anybody. More so, really, because they see stuff like this as shaming public service everywhere.

Re: Left with Nothing

#114

Post by Daishiman »

fnordfnordfnord wrote: post #92
rwmj wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Property taxes are very progressive and we should absolutely have more of them (fair ones, not like the one in this article where you lose your home if you fail to pay some trivial sum). The reasons are best described in the article below, but in summary, we all pay to defend and enhance your property (by supporting the police, roads, local services, etc). It's fairer for property owners to take a larger share of thi…

I don't think I like that idea. Sounds like a good way to throw Native Americans, Amish, and others who can't or don't wish to participate in the traditional labor force off of their land. disclosure: I am an ordinary, average, white, property owner, not Amish (Atheist, actually).

At some point, you cannot realistically expect your interests as a class if you refuse to participate in the political system, for better or worse.

The notion that we can be isolated within a nation and refuse to take collective responsibility is a dream that has never had much foundation in reality.

Re: Left with Nothing

#115

Post by bengotow »

mpalme wrote: post #18

Meta note: this is what journalism can look like today. Made for the web first, not for the paper. Visualizations that are actually insightful - and most importantly a well researched story.

Totally agree. This is an incredibly well presented article that makes great use of the web to create a more insightful, moving experience. Internet storytelling well done.

Re: Left with Nothing

#116

Post by Malician »

larrys wrote: post #37
cromwellian wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is, privatizing a state function -- collecting property taxes -- into a profitable enterprise. Ok, the guy owed $134, explain how under any reasonable financial theory, how this should be worth $5000 or $197,000. Why not a lien against his military pension? Why not negotiate a payment plan? Even the IRS has the courtesy to do that. Let's take the best possible return, say 20% annual return, and let's say…

Good points and agree. But I think when you get into "at best he'd owe $848" then you don't provide proper disincentive to prevent the behavior of ignoring tax bills and other notices. As an aside as someone who has gone through significant pain trying to collect money from people that owe varying amounts (over the years) it's a process that given a bigger stick (not "ordinary" penalties) would go a long way. Noting…

No reasonable person would intentionally give up their house, paid off, for a tax bill of $134, many years or not.

The number of people this is happening to and (one third of them over a bill less than $1,000) suggest that something about the process is screwed up.

Re: Left with Nothing

#118

Post by snitko »

wpietri wrote: post #113
snitko wrote: post #6

And yet I still see people saying "no, how dare you compare government to a bunch of thieves?".

And they should keep saying that. I agree that some portion of government operations are dubious. I believe the portion is pretty small. The people I know who work in government are there because they want to make a difference. They would be just as outraged by this as anybody. More so, really, because they see stuff like this as shaming public service everywhere.

I have no doubt that most low-ranking government employees believe they are doing good and I don't blame them. But it doesn't matter and it doesn't change the fact that they are involved in extracting money from people with a threat of force. If you can't convince people to finance something, whatever it is, and you still collect money from them, you are stealing.

Re: Left with Nothing

#119

Post by jmomo »

I question if outrage articles like this belong on Hacker News. This is just a hot-button troll. Queue discussion regarding the decline of commenter quality on Hacker News.

Re: Left with Nothing

#120

Post by klt0825 »

hansjorg wrote: post #83
afterburner wrote: post #31

The logical outcome of this kind of predatory practice should be that the "investor" (the purchaser of the liens) gets $5000 out of the $197,000 sale, and the debtor gets $192,000. And even that seem predatory, never mind getting all the equity and forcing the person out of their place of residence.

I have a hard time believing this story. If it actually is true, the local government in DC is beyond corrupt.

Frankly, this is a bigger problem that isn't nationally recognized. The mayor is under federal investigation for his campaign and I've lost count of how many officials have been arrested or investigated at the federal level.

Living near the district, I'm shocked daily by how nobody seems to care that the corruption is so widespread.

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