It's interesting (scary) to see all the anti-biotic resistant diseases on the rise. I wonder how long until the diseases vaccinated against evolve enough to bypass the antibodies produced by the vaccine?
Infectious disease doesn't care why you're unvaccinated
171–180 of 232 posts
Re: Infectious disease doesn't care why you're unvaccinated
#172I've had the fun experience of debating with anti-vaccine people. Outside of the religious 'god will protect us' line, which I can't really argue with as it's a matter of faith, the vaccines cause autism line keeps coming up. Unfortunately for us a condition that we don't really understand is far more prevalent than the side-effects of preventable diseases. I've never met anyone who's experienced post-polio syndrome…
> Outside of the religious 'god will protect us' line, which I can't really argue with as it's a matter of faith "God hasn't protected people of your faith historically, why do you think he's going to start now?"
it sure didn't protect the original Apostles (if Foxe's Book of Martyrs is to be believed).
Re: Infectious disease doesn't care why you're unvaccinated
#173Earlier quoted context omitted.
The sad thing is, one of the worst pandemics in human history is fairly recent: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1918_flu_pandemic There are (a few) people alive today who remember it. It killed between 1.5 and 3 times as many people as the earlier WWI - but isn't as sexy as war, so hardly anyone studies it (relatively speaking)
Hell, it killed around as many people as WW II , including the Holocaust (wikipedia estimates for WWII being >60million, and estimates for the Spanish flu being 50-100million.) Numbers that big become very difficult to actually fathom in a meaningful way.
That's about a 1/4th the US population. Wow!
Re: Infectious disease doesn't care why you're unvaccinated
#174Spend some time in the autism community, as a parent of a child with autism, and meet other parents of children with autism, and you might have a different opinion about whether children can be vaccine injured after you hear the same stories over and over again.
Re: Infectious disease doesn't care why you're unvaccinated
#175Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think he simply meant that he's never met someone with autism, in his experience. The point to that being that, if vaccines do cause autism, he should have met someone with autism. The fact that he didn't seems to argue against the hypothesis that vaccines do cause autism.
My point, how does the grandparent know he's never met someone with autism? Autism isn't always a visible disease. The faces of autism are the faces of everyday people. My guess is they have meet or seen an autistic person, and didn't know they were autistic because they have some kind of preconceived notion of what an autistic person looks or sounds like or acts like. Look at the pictures I posted above of my two au…
You're reading a lot into "seen" here. FYI, it's often used to mean "observed" or "known" generally, not necessarily in a visual or superficial sense. When addressing an argument about the supposed autism risk of vaccines, both prevalence and severity matter. If the severity of the effect is so low that these individuals do not present as autistic during normal interaction, then the risks of vaccination compared to the risks of measles/polio/etc. could be considered low despite high prevalence (which as far as anyone knows is not the case anyway).
BTW, are you aware what impression people might gain from the the vehemence and narrow focus (missing the broader point) of your response, in a discussion of anything related to the autism spectrum? Maybe you should work on reining in that behaviour instead of indulging it.
Re: Infectious disease doesn't care why you're unvaccinated
#176Spend some time in the autism community, as a parent of a child with autism, and meet other parents of children with autism, and you might have a different opinion about whether children can be vaccine injured after you hear the same stories over and over again.
Re: Infectious disease doesn't care why you're unvaccinated
#177I love this argument, "reality doesn't care". I often have semi-arguments with family members when they tell me that they "believe" that X is true or Y is false when it comes to medical or scientific stuff. Then I tediously argue that science is not a matter of beliefs but facts, but that doesn't really hit home because some random guy on a random website wrote something they wanted to hear. I thought about forwardin…
The nice thing about reality is that it continues to exist regardless if you believe in it or not.
The thing is, what we perceive as reality might be wrong sometimes. Fortunately the scientific method is a pretty good algorithm whose purpose is to expose it whether we like the answer or not. Our species doesn't know everything yet, and we're limited by the capabilities of our bodies, knowledge, technology, and other things.
Many people like to create a worldview in their heads which they become comfortable with. That's fine, but trouble arises when it's challenged and they fail to question or adjust it. Those who stubbornly defend against, dismiss, or demonize contradictory evidence significantly increase their probability of being wrong. A great technique to avoid this trap is to ask yourself, and answer, the following question for any subject, no matter how uncomfortable or taboo:
What facts or evidence would it take for you to stop believing in what you currently believe?
It's an excellent self-check, and a tool no open minded person should be without.
Re: Infectious disease doesn't care why you're unvaccinated
#178Spend some time in the autism community, as a parent of a child with autism, and meet other parents of children with autism, and you might have a different opinion about whether children can be vaccine injured after you hear the same stories over and over again.
Man, I wish I could down-vote this idiotic comment.
Changes in the brains of infants who later developed Autism have been observed before those infants ever received their vaccinations.
Re: Infectious disease doesn't care why you're unvaccinated
#179I've had the fun experience of debating with anti-vaccine people. Outside of the religious 'god will protect us' line, which I can't really argue with as it's a matter of faith, the vaccines cause autism line keeps coming up. Unfortunately for us a condition that we don't really understand is far more prevalent than the side-effects of preventable diseases. I've never met anyone who's experienced post-polio syndrome…
Why would God protect from the measles but not the autism? (And I say this as a Christian who believes in healing) Yet while 'vaccine denialism' is often associated with the Religious Right, it's certainly not a prerequisite, because you can certainly find the same sentiments among the all-natural anti-GMO fringe Left, and before we had stories about Texas mega churches we had stories about affluent Californians[1] […
And I say this as a Christian who believes in healing
Forgive me if I come across as rude. I'd love to hear your answer to, "Why won't God heal amputees?"
I'm not trying to score points or anything. I'm genuinely curious about your answer. Despite our different beliefs, I'm glad we share so much common ground on the issue of vaccination.
Re: Infectious disease doesn't care why you're unvaccinated
#180Earlier quoted context omitted.
Looking at the facts lead me to a moderate position. I let you feel confortable following the cdc, i prefer to keep a critical mind, though i agree it is hard for non experts like us to get good and objective information.
" ...you feel confortable following the cdc, i prefer to keep a critical mind... " * Do you have information that is not available to the CDC? * Do you have evidence that the CDC is biased in a fashion that prevents it from being suitably "critical"?
* Did I have information showing that the NSA was accessing private data stored at big providers like Google, MS, Apple, etc? No.
* Was I right to have kept a critical mind regarding storing data in the cloud? Yes
So in response to your comment, I'm not saying the CDC is not to be trusted or biased. I'm just saying keeping a critical mind is a must.