Ask HN: How to best acquire theoretical computer science knowledge?

#1

Post by fourmyle » Sat, Sep 07, 2013, 3:44 PM UTC

I didn't know what I wanted to do before going to college at Penn State. I just knew that I had to go to college. I was always interested computers so I ended majoring in Information Sciences and Technology. About halfway through when I actually got to take some programming classes I discovered that I had a passion for software. I went to my counselor and inquired about switching over to CS. Unfortunately, almost nothing from my major would transfer and I had to pretty much start over. As someone paying for college myself this really wasn't an option. I continued on with IST in the Design and Development option.

I ended becoming the first employee at Bay Area startup. They were a bit desperate and I convinced them I could make their Android apps. I did and they are both highly rated. I also made one of my own that ended up getting featured on Google Play and receiving a lot of press. I have a bit of knack for it but I am so bored with GUIs and UIs. I want to work on harder problems and not just use other peoples libraries. The problem is that my lack of knowledge limits my thinking. I want to fix this. I am torn between going back to school for another BS in CS, pursuing a MS in CS, or teaching myself from things like MIT Open Courseware and Udacity.

I am not really worried about getting a job. This is about gaining knowledge. Although having a "real" CS would certainly help keep me from being pigeon holed as an app developer and open a few more doors. I do think that going back to school would be the quickest route to gaining the knowledge I want. I am just worried that I wouldn't get into a top school and I don't know if I should try to do a BS, MS, or just take classes. I really don't want another $50k in debt either. Especially when things like the Georgia Tech online MS CS is coming out for $7k.

So, what is the best way for a proven and largely self taught developer to take their knowledge to the next level?

Re: Ask HN: How to best acquire theoretical computer science knowledge?

#2

Post by asselinpaul » Sat, Sep 07, 2013, 4:03 PM UTC

Coursera, edX and Udacity.

I have myself taken half a course on Udacity(did not finish) and a Startup Engineering Course on Coursera. I've started a new course on Coursera and really enjoy the material on there.

Also, I'd suggest you read a lot, the internet is a treasure trove of information. I've learnt from long blog posts and free online books. Have a go and explore, you'll reach a point where you don't have enough time to study everything you want.

Goodluck

Re: Ask HN: How to best acquire theoretical computer science knowledge?

#3

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Sep 07, 2013, 4:04 PM UTC

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: How to best acquire theoretical computer science knowledge?

#4

Post by petercooper » Sat, Sep 07, 2013, 4:05 PM UTC

I'm going to keep this reply shallow but my advice is dig up a curriculum and course guide for a CS degree (there are many publicly discoverable with Google), establish what all of the main topics and threads are, grab the best/most recommended textbooks for a couple of topics at a time, work through the books a few pages at a time and for anything you don't understand, Google and learn about it. Take copious notes as you go to refer back to. Read papers that pop up from time to time, get a feel for what you know you don't understand and quickly get up to speed with them (even if it's just reading Wikipedia for 20 minutes).

The above is deliberate practice and learning but also keep an eye out for CS-level posts linked on HN and http://www.reddit.com/r/compsci and relate them to what you're learning. Read a post about AI data structures in Prolog? Don't understand Prolog that sounds interesting? Get a feel for what Prolog is. Write a simple program. Get a feel for implementing the data structure in a language you do understand. Then try and bring both Prolog and the structure together. Rinse and repeat with anything that interests you. Again, be sure to TAKE NOTES or you'll forget things using this scattershot approach.

It'll take a TON of time but if you keep your sessions relatively short, you'll get a shallow knowledge of all of the major CS areas quickly, and then you can use your job or natural interest to drive you into going deep on areas that affect or motivate you.

I'm starting an MSc in software engineering later this year but my own CS knowledge has mostly been learned in the above ways (that is, I don't have a bachelors in CS).

Clarification: As cliveowen got me to realize (below), the above approach might not be for you if you have a very specific target in your career development. My experiences and recommendations are specifically around getting a broad level of experience rather than aiming at a specific role (which, perhaps, you should be doing).

Re: Ask HN: How to best acquire theoretical computer science knowledge?

#5

Post by samatman » Sat, Sep 07, 2013, 4:09 PM UTC

Read. Focus on foundational texts. I'm talking about texts like K&R, SICP, Lisp In Small Pieces, RFC 791. I'll add Gödel, Escher, Bach, because I genuinely believe it will make anyone a better computer programmer. There are far more than I could mention in a paragraph; L.I.S.P is not as well known as the others I mention, and got added mostly because I'm reading it at present. It's really good.

Also, read actual code. Want to know how diff works? Read diff. Getting better at code forensics is the second-best way for a self-taught programmer to learn real CS.

EDIT: I am a largely self-taught programmer.

Re: Ask HN: How to best acquire theoretical computer science knowledge?

#6

Post by kenjackson » Sat, Sep 07, 2013, 4:10 PM UTC

At the end of the day I think its a question of what you value more "money" or "time". If money is your main concern, use books and online courses. If time is your main concern, get an MS at a good CS program.

My problem with teaching myself is that it's hard for me to stay motivated after the first couple of weeks. Now this just me -- it's not you. So maybe you don't have this problem at all, but I've found school to be a good motivator.

Plus having a good professor can help get through the tough spots. I studied complexity under Papadimitriou and he was great at explaining things I struggled with.

One problem with school though is you'll have less flexibility to skip things you don't care about, and investigate those things you do. That can be a blessing or a curse.

Re: Ask HN: How to best acquire theoretical computer science knowledge?

#7

Post by TimPC » Sat, Sep 07, 2013, 4:10 PM UTC

I think it's far and away self-study or if you can find a good online course among the free solutions you can start there. The Art of Computer Programming by Knuth has a lot of the theory included and doesn't hold back on the Math. Similarly, Introduction to Algorithms by Cormen, Leiserson, Rivest and Stein is quite good for the basis of Algorithm theory.

That being said, theory plays a small role in everyday development. If your primary goal is to increase your knowledge as it relates to development you don't want to focus on theory until it becomes a pain point. Algorithm theory helps with scalability, but practice is far more useful to programming. Conferences in your field that can expose you to new things to learn and different tool chains in your language are valuable. Learning a new related language can also be valuable you might consider learning iOS and then JavaScript which would let you work on Android, iOS and Cordova (formerly PhoneGap) applications at a level where you'd be comfortable going from JavaScript to native to write unavailable features.

If you're happy and have good opportunities on Android, focus on getting a deeper understanding: what are good open source repos, what coding conventions do they use, what frameworks and approaches could you know better. Are there parts of the OS you haven't worked with and wanted to? For instance, I built a demo app for LG designed for in-store promo devices where we hacked around in the OS to intercept the display of screens that would let the user delete apps from the phone and throw up a password lock that would kick them out to the main screen. Try and get a sense of where your best (however you measure it) opportunities are and focus your learning in that direction.

Re: Ask HN: How to best acquire theoretical computer science knowledge?

#8

Post by soora » Sat, Sep 07, 2013, 4:13 PM UTC

One way of improving your knowledge is something you have already done.

Get another job that will force you to expand your knowledge. I am sure your job experience with your first start up is serving you better than a CS degree.

Similarly, a job which involves doing low level computer programming would force you to learn a lot of very practice CS, and you would be getting paid for it instead of the other way around.

Re: Ask HN: How to best acquire theoretical computer science knowledge?

#9

Post by cliveowen » Sat, Sep 07, 2013, 4:14 PM UTC

petercooper wrote: post #4

I'm going to keep this reply shallow but my advice is dig up a curriculum and course guide for a CS degree (there are many publicly discoverable with Google), establish what all of the main topics and threads are, grab the best/most recommended textbooks for a couple of topics at a time, work through the books a few pages at a time and for anything you don't understand, Google and learn about it. Take copious notes a…

Frankly I think that's the worst advice you could give anyone for whatever subject: i.e. "when you find something you don't know about, study it". The best course would be to pursue a targeted learning, and by that I mean, do you wanna be a data scientist? Then you should study probability theory and statistics along with the relative algorithms instead of reading something about Prolog. Do you wanna become a software engineer? Then you should study software engineering, programming, algorithms, advanced algorithms and data structures, patterns, and so on. Getting a "shallow knowledge of all of the major CS areas quickly" with a "scattershot approach" is a recipe for disaster. The ultimate goal is to gain skills needed for your dream job.

Re: Ask HN: How to best acquire theoretical computer science knowledge?

#10

Post by nhamann » Sat, Sep 07, 2013, 4:15 PM UTC

Sorry if this is obvious, but: read books. A good place to start is here: http://cstheory.stackexchange.com/questions/3253/what-books-...

There was another reading list that I remember seeing, I think it was from Stanford's TCS website, but I no longer can find it.

Self-teaching is fun because you get to choose your own curriculum, but it's often frustrating too because if you get stuck, there is no professor or TA to unstick you. This issue can somewhat mitigated via the internet.