From beginning to end, the story of a failed parking startup • Hacker News Board

Re: From beginning to end, the story of a failed parking startup

#21

Post by jriley » Fri, Sep 06, 2013, 8:17 PM UTC

jonnathanson wrote: post #2

I heard a rumor once, and I have no idea how true it may be. But the rumor goes something like this: parking lots, beyond being ridiculously lucrative and turn-key businesses, are also fantastic money-laundering or tax-dodging opportunities. And so many of them are owned by shady characters, or shady companies. These types don't necessarily want to deal with things like processing credit cards, or getting into paper…

I'll make it not a rumor, and add used car dealerships who don't appear to sell many cars. Turns out they can be an investment strategy for land.

This is from an online class I took called "Texas Essentials of Real Estate Investment".

"With the elimination in 1986 of preferred treatment of capital gains profits and accelerated depreciation allowances, real estate investments lost much of their glamour as tax shelters. However, the tax laws have preserved other sheltering aspects, including tax-free refinancing, pyramiding through refinancing, special exemptions for profits made from the sale of principal residences, installment-sale deferments, exchanges, and inheritance tax exemptions."

Re: From beginning to end, the story of a failed parking startup

#22

Post by muzz » Fri, Sep 06, 2013, 8:42 PM UTC

chrishoog wrote: post #11

calinet6 wrote: post #4

This is 2 years old. Here's a better version: http://chrishoog.com/the-helloparking-postmortem-a-look-back... The last part is spot on, and says what you were probably just about to try to tell him (self-righteously I'd bet!).

Thanks for sharing. Somehow, in the wake of my new post my old one resurfaced...

Didn't mean to steal a submission. I searched for it and couldn't find it.

Re: From beginning to end, the story of a failed parking startup

#23

Post by nilkn » Fri, Sep 06, 2013, 8:48 PM UTC

normloman wrote: post #6

The AirBnB of Parking. The ZipCar of Parking. The Priceline.com of Parking. The Groupon of Parking. There's your problem. You kept imitating other businesses instead of doing what makes sense for your customers.

To be fair, if I understood the post right, it seems he was making the comparisons retrospectively (i.e., they weren't originally trying to imitate AirBnB because at the time they didn't even know about it).

Re: From beginning to end, the story of a failed parking startup

#24

Post by jmduke » Fri, Sep 06, 2013, 8:53 PM UTC

mindslight wrote: post #19

hkarthik wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That rumor actually makes sense. I recently heard of a startup that is disrupting the valet industry by helping them get rid of their cash boxes (which apparently are prone to theft) and use mobile payments. They're lining up customers quickly because the product essentially pays for itself by resolving the theft problem alone. I wondered why we haven't seen anything similar for parking spaces, but the tax dodging, m…

> These folks wouldn't want anything that creates a paper trail If the tech community wishes to actually do something about widespread surveillance, it's going to have to come around to seeing this philosophy as a virtue.

These things aren't binary: there's nothing fallacious about thinking we should have enough accountability to eliminate organized crime syndicates while also not having so much that it jeopardizes the livelihood of innocent citizens.

Re: From beginning to end, the story of a failed parking startup

#25

Post by chrishoog » Fri, Sep 06, 2013, 9:00 PM UTC

muzz wrote: post #22

chrishoog wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for sharing. Somehow, in the wake of my new post my old one resurfaced...

Didn't mean to steal a submission. I searched for it and couldn't find it.

No worries - I'm honored

Re: From beginning to end, the story of a failed parking startup

#26

Post by mindslight » Fri, Sep 06, 2013, 9:20 PM UTC

jmduke wrote: post #24

mindslight wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> These folks wouldn't want anything that creates a paper trail If the tech community wishes to actually do something about widespread surveillance, it's going to have to come around to seeing this philosophy as a virtue.

These things aren't binary: there's nothing fallacious about thinking we should have enough accountability to eliminate organized crime syndicates while also not having so much that it jeopardizes the livelihood of innocent citizens.

Actually you've just made two fallacies -

The first is the use of conflicting judgmental criteria that constrain the question to favorable cases. If the idea of innocence is tied solely to the government's rules, then innocent citizens are not jeopardized, by definition. If there is an external concept of innocence, then it's possible for organized rule breakers to be innocent yet unjustly "eliminated".

The second is assuming that rules (and therefore (in)justice) apply stronger to larger organizations. In fact, the opposite is true - as an entity scales, skirting compliance requires a smaller fraction of its resources.

Re: From beginning to end, the story of a failed parking startup

#27

Post by jcampbell1 » Fri, Sep 06, 2013, 9:46 PM UTC

jonnathanson wrote: post #2

I heard a rumor once, and I have no idea how true it may be. But the rumor goes something like this: parking lots, beyond being ridiculously lucrative and turn-key businesses, are also fantastic money-laundering or tax-dodging opportunities. And so many of them are owned by shady characters, or shady companies. These types don't necessarily want to deal with things like processing credit cards, or getting into paper…

Tax-dodging seems plausible, but money-laundering seems like it would be tricky. The income is very consistent, and the buying a lot from an existing owner would be pricey.

It is much better to buy something like an unprofitable nightclub. It doesn't raise any alarms when a nightclub goes from $300k/year to $1M/year in cash under new ownership. The same can't be said for a parking lot.

Strip clubs are also pretty good. It is really hard to prove that the VIP room gate wasn't $1000/night.

Re: From beginning to end, the story of a failed parking startup

#28

Post by jbigelow76 » Fri, Sep 06, 2013, 10:28 PM UTC

jcampbell1 wrote: post #27

jonnathanson wrote: post #2

I heard a rumor once, and I have no idea how true it may be. But the rumor goes something like this: parking lots, beyond being ridiculously lucrative and turn-key businesses, are also fantastic money-laundering or tax-dodging opportunities. And so many of them are owned by shady characters, or shady companies. These types don't necessarily want to deal with things like processing credit cards, or getting into paper…

Tax-dodging seems plausible, but money-laundering seems like it would be tricky. The income is very consistent, and the buying a lot from an existing owner would be pricey. It is much better to buy something like an unprofitable nightclub. It doesn't raise any alarms when a nightclub goes from $300k/year to $1M/year in cash under new ownership. The same can't be said for a parking lot. Strip clubs are also pretty goo…

    >money-laundering seems like it would be tricky. The income is very consistent, and the buying a lot from an existing owner would be pricey.

If you're the type of person that needs to do a lot of money laundering you might also be the type of person that wouldn't mind negotiating with existing owners demanding lots of money as you would probably have some unorthodox means of swaying negotiations in your favor.

Re: From beginning to end, the story of a failed parking startup

#29

Post by sfall » Fri, Sep 06, 2013, 11:01 PM UTC

jcampbell1 wrote: post #27

jonnathanson wrote: post #2

I heard a rumor once, and I have no idea how true it may be. But the rumor goes something like this: parking lots, beyond being ridiculously lucrative and turn-key businesses, are also fantastic money-laundering or tax-dodging opportunities. And so many of them are owned by shady characters, or shady companies. These types don't necessarily want to deal with things like processing credit cards, or getting into paper…

Tax-dodging seems plausible, but money-laundering seems like it would be tricky. The income is very consistent, and the buying a lot from an existing owner would be pricey. It is much better to buy something like an unprofitable nightclub. It doesn't raise any alarms when a nightclub goes from $300k/year to $1M/year in cash under new ownership. The same can't be said for a parking lot. Strip clubs are also pretty goo…

the difference between night clubs and parking garages is that night clubs use more consumables

you can take an average performing and up the price but maintain the level of business on the books (cars per day) but in reality fewer cars enter. another aspect to make cash flow set up a contract for parking with another of your shady businesses and money can start to flow to one legit business (garage) from any shady business

Re: From beginning to end, the story of a failed parking startup

#30

Post by drifting » Fri, Sep 06, 2013, 11:07 PM UTC

Thanks a lot for posting this. I'm joining a startup next week as the first round of employees and there are definitely some good lessons in this article and the updated version to keep in mind. Thanks again!!!