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From Thomas Pynchon, a novel of the dot-com era and the end of history

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Re: From Thomas Pynchon, a novel of the dot-com era and the end of history

#11

Post by FreakLegion »

cgh wrote: post #8

A new Pynchon is huge news. And contrary to what some posters here seem to believe, he's not hard to understand, other than certain passages in "Gravity's Rainbow" in which even he apparently doesn't remember what he was talking about. I think a lot of people are simply thrown by his constantly shifting perspectives from one character to another and his weird humour. Plus he has a technical background so he throws a…

V. is one of my favorite novels. To anyone not already familiar with Pynchon: If you like Neal Stephenson, give Pynchon a shot.

Re: From Thomas Pynchon, a novel of the dot-com era and the end of history

#12

Post by ryanklee »

hvs wrote: post #4
mindrag wrote: post #2

Is that article actually in English? I couldn't understand a damn thing the author was trying to say. "...like a black pearl from an oyster unfathomable by any other diver into our eternal souls." What?

Welcome to modern literature. If you can understand what they are saying, then it isn't any good. It's like abstract art applied to words.

Like Yolesaber suggests, this is a gross mis-characterization. You need to read more and more widely. It's no longer 1935. And even then, at the height of modernism, a wide spectrum existed.

Edit: Obviously, reading literature is an entirely optional activity. I don't mean to suggest that you are obligated to do so. Only that to be familiar with the subjects that one makes claims about isn't such a horrible idea.

Re: From Thomas Pynchon, a novel of the dot-com era and the end of history

#13

Post by dnr »

cgh wrote: post #8

A new Pynchon is huge news. And contrary to what some posters here seem to believe, he's not hard to understand, other than certain passages in "Gravity's Rainbow" in which even he apparently doesn't remember what he was talking about. I think a lot of people are simply thrown by his constantly shifting perspectives from one character to another and his weird humour. Plus he has a technical background so he throws a…

V. is a disjoint "novel" with parts cobbled together from short stories. I wouldn't recommend it as a first (even though it was my first). Instead, try Vineland. It has a more or less straightforward plot and is quite entertaining.

Plus some absolutely brilliant passages. Here's an apropos one:

"If patterns of ones and zeros were 'like' patterns of human lives and deaths, if everything about an individual could be represented in a computer record by a long string of ones and zeros, then what kind of creature would be represented by a long string of lives and deaths? It would have to be up one level at least -- an angel, a minor god, something in a UFO. It would take eight human lives and deaths just to form one character in this being's name -- its complete dossier might take up a considerable piece of the history of the world. We are digits in God's computer, she not so much thought as hummed to herself to a sort of standard gospel tune, And the only thing we're good for, to be dead or to be living, is the only thing He sees. What we cry, what we contend for, in our world of toil and blood, it all lies beneath the notice of the hacker we call God."

Re: From Thomas Pynchon, a novel of the dot-com era and the end of history

#15

Post by abruzzi »

cgh wrote: post #8

A new Pynchon is huge news. And contrary to what some posters here seem to believe, he's not hard to understand, other than certain passages in "Gravity's Rainbow" in which even he apparently doesn't remember what he was talking about. I think a lot of people are simply thrown by his constantly shifting perspectives from one character to another and his weird humour. Plus he has a technical background so he throws a…

Pynchon writes two distinct types of novels. V., Gravity's Rainbow, Mason & Dixon, and Against the Day are is big (literally) complexly plotted novels that frequently involve hundreds of characters and huge forces of history. They are my favorites, but they require serious commitment and even then can be difficult to read (I've never actually gotten through Mason & Dixon.)

He also writes smaller stories that generally focus on a single primary plot with a clear main character driving the story. These are The Crying of Lot 49, Vineland, Inherent Vice, and from the sound of the review, Bleeding Edge. These don't capture his insane manic complexity except in tiny flashes, but they are far easier to acclimate yourself to Pynchon.

I do think of his "simpler" novels, The Crying of Lot 49 gives the best taste of Pynchon's common obsessions. I enjoyed Inherent Vice and Vineland, but Lot 49 is much more finely polished.

Re: From Thomas Pynchon, a novel of the dot-com era and the end of history

#16

Post by saraid216 »

percentcer wrote: post #9
mindrag wrote: post #2

Is that article actually in English? I couldn't understand a damn thing the author was trying to say. "...like a black pearl from an oyster unfathomable by any other diver into our eternal souls." What?

You left out "glinting rich and strange", which helps to make sense of "into our eternal souls". Black pearls are rare with a somewhat subjective beauty, "unfathomable" can be interpreted literally in the analogy but also holds its normal meaning, and "any other diver" refers to any author but Pynchon.

> "unfathomable" can be interpreted literally in the analogy but also holds its normal meaning

Near as I can tell without reading the article, this sentence uses "unfathomable" with all of its meanings. Which I find nifty.

Re: From Thomas Pynchon, a novel of the dot-com era and the end of history

#17

Post by MaysonL »

dnr wrote: post #13
cgh wrote: post #8

A new Pynchon is huge news. And contrary to what some posters here seem to believe, he's not hard to understand, other than certain passages in "Gravity's Rainbow" in which even he apparently doesn't remember what he was talking about. I think a lot of people are simply thrown by his constantly shifting perspectives from one character to another and his weird humour. Plus he has a technical background so he throws a…

V. is a disjoint "novel" with parts cobbled together from short stories. I wouldn't recommend it as a first (even though it was my first). Instead, try Vineland. It has a more or less straightforward plot and is quite entertaining. Plus some absolutely brilliant passages. Here's an apropos one: "If patterns of ones and zeros were 'like' patterns of human lives and deaths, if everything about an individual could be re…

Shades of this story, linked to from HN a few days ago: http://www.galactanet.com/oneoff/theegg.html

Re: From Thomas Pynchon, a novel of the dot-com era and the end of history

#18

Post by jonnathanson »

tlb wrote: post #3
mindrag wrote: post #2

Is that article actually in English? I couldn't understand a damn thing the author was trying to say. "...like a black pearl from an oyster unfathomable by any other diver into our eternal souls." What?

The reviewer is indulging in Pynchon-esque language here. Pynchon is hard to read, and people still debate the meaning of his books. You might enjoy them if you let go of expecting every sentence to make logical sense.

Pynchon is a lyricist and a madman, and he's damned good at being both. I wince when I read others trying to cop his style, even if momentarily. Troy Patterson is good, often really good, but he sounds fake here.

Re: From Thomas Pynchon, a novel of the dot-com era and the end of history

#19

Post by lovemenot »

saraid216 wrote: post #16
percentcer wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You left out "glinting rich and strange", which helps to make sense of "into our eternal souls". Black pearls are rare with a somewhat subjective beauty, "unfathomable" can be interpreted literally in the analogy but also holds its normal meaning, and "any other diver" refers to any author but Pynchon.

> "unfathomable" can be interpreted literally in the analogy but also holds its normal meaning Near as I can tell without reading the article, this sentence uses "unfathomable" with all of its meanings. Which I find nifty.

For this to work beautifully, we would fathom pearls when finding or collecting them. afaik only depths of water can be the literal object of the verb to fathom. It doesn't quite succeed, here. Which is likely why Pynchon is celebrated and the reviewer is reviewing him, rather than the reverse.

Re: From Thomas Pynchon, a novel of the dot-com era and the end of history

#20

Post by TomDavey »

abruzzi wrote: post #15
cgh wrote: post #8

A new Pynchon is huge news. And contrary to what some posters here seem to believe, he's not hard to understand, other than certain passages in "Gravity's Rainbow" in which even he apparently doesn't remember what he was talking about. I think a lot of people are simply thrown by his constantly shifting perspectives from one character to another and his weird humour. Plus he has a technical background so he throws a…

Pynchon writes two distinct types of novels. V., Gravity's Rainbow, Mason & Dixon, and Against the Day are is big (literally) complexly plotted novels that frequently involve hundreds of characters and huge forces of history. They are my favorites, but they require serious commitment and even then can be difficult to read (I've never actually gotten through Mason & Dixon.) He also writes smaller stories that generall…

The Crying of Lot 49 contains IMO one of the most hilarious sustained passages in all of modern American Lit. It's a parody of a typical Jacobean revenge like Webster's "Duchess of Malfi." The parody is pitch-perfect. It mocks every convention of the genre, including -- especially -- the preposterous violence.
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