How Advanced Is the NSA's Cryptanalysis, and Can We Resist It?
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Re: How Advanced Is the NSA's Cryptanalysis, and Can We Resist It?
#2Politics and civil freedoms aside, I think it's fascinating that there can essentially be this black box, i.e. the NSA, that can make breakthroughs in new mathematics with only its employees and those on the outside sworn to secrecy. They obviously have brilliant mathematicians, but more brilliant than the best ones at the world's best universities or tech companies? Or are their suspected/hypothetical theoretical breakthroughs a product of the efficiency of academic thinking that comes from being under one roof, a la the Manhattan Project (which, like the NSA, obviously had more than just people brilliant in an academia sense)
When I studied cryptography in college, our professor said matter of factly that the NSA is likely at least a decade ahead in terms of known mathematical breakthroughs, but perhaps he was biased toward thinking that because he was in the field during the 1970s breakthrough that Schneier mentions. It seems more feasible that the breakthrough is in engineering and technology, but hey, I guess it's good to know the boundaries of mathematical reasoning can be pushed (hopefully, those gains will be available to the rest of the world for non-spying means)
edit: Case in point, Schneier's 2007 post that's now on the front page
https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2007/11/the_strange_s...
Schneier describes a random number generator, released as the standard by the U.S. government, that he concludes was likely back-doored through NSA intervention. This hypothesis was made by two independent researchers in the previous months, and others had suspicions a year before. My point being: in terms of open encryption standards, it's very amazing that the NSA (or any private entity) can make a purely mathematical breakthrough that's well-ahead of the field.
Re: How Advanced Is the NSA's Cryptanalysis, and Can We Resist It?
#3Politics and civil freedoms aside, I think it's fascinating that there can essentially be this black box, i.e. the NSA, that can make breakthroughs in new mathematics with only its employees and those on the outside sworn to secrecy. They obviously have brilliant mathematicians, but more brilliant than the best ones at the world's best universities or tech companies? Or are their suspected/hypothetical theoretical br…
As Schneier says, the difference is that the NSA guys get all the breakthroughs in the public sphere PLUS all the breakthroughs they have privately, so they will ALWAYS be at least as far as the public, and most likely further.
Also, they might not have the most brilliant mathematicians, but private companies don't have the interest in using their math expertise to break encryption. There are more lucrative ways to exploit great math ability.
Universities may have more of an interest in advancing cryptography research, but they can't match the budget nor focus of the NSA.
Re: How Advanced Is the NSA's Cryptanalysis, and Can We Resist It?
#4Politics and civil freedoms aside, I think it's fascinating that there can essentially be this black box, i.e. the NSA, that can make breakthroughs in new mathematics with only its employees and those on the outside sworn to secrecy. They obviously have brilliant mathematicians, but more brilliant than the best ones at the world's best universities or tech companies? Or are their suspected/hypothetical theoretical br…
As Schneier says, the difference is that the NSA guys get all the breakthroughs in the public sphere PLUS all the breakthroughs they have privately, so they will ALWAYS be at least as far as the public, and most likely further. Also, they might not have the most brilliant mathematicians, but private companies don't have the interest in using their math expertise to break encryption. There are more lucrative ways to e…
Agreed. One advantage the NSA has is it can pay some of the best mathematicians to be full-time pure mathematicians. There are very few mathematicians that have the opportunity to do something like that -- even professors have to teach a few classes. I imagine it's a powerful draw to top talent and gives them the ability to spend more time on a problem than most others.
Re: How Advanced Is the NSA's Cryptanalysis, and Can We Resist It?
#5If you're a brilliant mathematician who has made a breakthrough in breaking cryptography, wouldn't you want to make a deal with the NSA? Reveal breakthrough in return for more knowledge.
Re: How Advanced Is the NSA's Cryptanalysis, and Can We Resist It?
#6Does anyone know of any research surrounding the usage of meshnets (security wise)? I know they are springing up in places like chicago (I'm following the forum[0] so I can at least be conscious of the technical aspects and their implementations when I can do something like that where I live), but somehow they remain disconnected from general conversation (on HN) surrounding passive surveillance.
Re: How Advanced Is the NSA's Cryptanalysis, and Can We Resist It?
#7Earlier quoted context omitted.
As Schneier says, the difference is that the NSA guys get all the breakthroughs in the public sphere PLUS all the breakthroughs they have privately, so they will ALWAYS be at least as far as the public, and most likely further. Also, they might not have the most brilliant mathematicians, but private companies don't have the interest in using their math expertise to break encryption. There are more lucrative ways to e…
Agreed. One advantage the NSA has is it can pay some of the best mathematicians to be full-time pure mathematicians. There are very few mathematicians that have the opportunity to do something like that -- even professors have to teach a few classes. I imagine it's a powerful draw to top talent and gives them the ability to spend more time on a problem than most others.
On the other hand your work is secret and you will never be recognized for what you do.
Re: How Advanced Is the NSA's Cryptanalysis, and Can We Resist It?
#8Yet they let one random contractor steal a ton of their secrets. What are the odds that one person out of those 35,000 that knows these secrets, if they exist, and has a conscience won't come forth and spill the magic beans.
Re: How Advanced Is the NSA's Cryptanalysis, and Can We Resist It?
#9Earlier quoted context omitted.
Agreed. One advantage the NSA has is it can pay some of the best mathematicians to be full-time pure mathematicians. There are very few mathematicians that have the opportunity to do something like that -- even professors have to teach a few classes. I imagine it's a powerful draw to top talent and gives them the ability to spend more time on a problem than most others.
On the other hand your work is secret and you will never be recognized for what you do.
Or, if movies have taught me anything, after you've done your work and it's fully documented & reproducible... you'll be killed
Re: How Advanced Is the NSA's Cryptanalysis, and Can We Resist It?
#10Earlier quoted context omitted.
Agreed. One advantage the NSA has is it can pay some of the best mathematicians to be full-time pure mathematicians. There are very few mathematicians that have the opportunity to do something like that -- even professors have to teach a few classes. I imagine it's a powerful draw to top talent and gives them the ability to spend more time on a problem than most others.
On the other hand your work is secret and you will never be recognized for what you do.
There are some (if not many) mathematicians for which recognition is not a plus (and in some cases may even be a negative).