This is for bicycles what Tesla is for cars • Hacker News Board

Re: This is for bicycles what Tesla is for cars

#51

Post by masklinn » Thu, Sep 05, 2013, 10:27 AM UTC

greyman wrote: post #28

revelation wrote: post #15

This weighs 50kg and will not be legally considered a bicycle. So you will need a license plate and insurance. And then it's probably not street legal. So you can drive this in the woods, if you don't get caught.

What EU legislation says about the max. bike weight?

Nothing. UK legislation says it can't be more than 40kg (or 60 for a tricycle or tandem).

2002/24/EC does however say:

* the maximum continuous rated power may not be more than 250W

* assistance may be provided only while pedaling

* assistance may not be provided beyond 25 km/h

Re: This is for bicycles what Tesla is for cars

#52

Post by oblio » Thu, Sep 05, 2013, 10:28 AM UTC

Does riding it as a bike recharge the battery? That would be great.

Re: This is for bicycles what Tesla is for cars

#53

Post by masklinn » Thu, Sep 05, 2013, 10:30 AM UTC

urlwolf wrote: post #2

49 kg, too heavy to use it as a normal bike. This means people will use always use it in electric mode. Hmm, this takes some of the appeal away...

It makes it an overpriced electric scooter.

Re: This is for bicycles what Tesla is for cars

#54

Post by mcv » Thu, Sep 05, 2013, 10:31 AM UTC

quchen wrote: post #5

At a weight of 49 kg, this is way too heavy to be considered "sort of a bicycle". Pedelecs assist the rider, whereas here it's necessary to have a charged battery, or you'll feel like there's another person riding along with you. Taking a look from the other "what is a bicycle" side, this thing fills an interesting niche: even when you only have to pedal for 1% of the power in street mode, you're still pedaling, so i…

49kg is not too heavy to be considered "a sort of bicycle". Modern cargo bikes can be up to 60 kg, and I suspect classic cargo bikes are a lot heavier than that, yet they're all "a sort of bicycle", just not a very fast one.

What disqualifies this as "a sort of bicycle" is the fact that it's powered. Well, there are power-assisted bicycles, but they don't generally go up to 65 kph. Mostly, this is a kind of moped that wants to look like a bicycle.

Re: This is for bicycles what Tesla is for cars

#55

Post by masklinn » Thu, Sep 05, 2013, 10:32 AM UTC

awjr wrote: post #25

This is not what I would call a bicycle. It's a motorbike that allows you to pedal should you want to. In the UK, this would need a motorbike licence. There are strict rules as to how an electric bicycle may assist you and up to what speed. Non-pedal assist (just turn the handle) are limited to 20kmh otherwise they are considered a motorbike. Pedal assist are effectively self-limiting. Also in the video, the woman ac…

> Non-pedal assist (just turn the handle) are limited to 20kmh otherwise they are considered a motorbike

FWIW, it's 25km/h and applies to both non-assist and assist. UK differs from EU regulation there in that EU regs completely forbid non-pedal assist, but the 25km/h for electrical power is the same.

Re: This is for bicycles what Tesla is for cars

#56

Post by mootothemax » Thu, Sep 05, 2013, 10:33 AM UTC

chrisvineup wrote: post #50

mootothemax wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bicycles are probably one innovative and competitive markets out there, the amount of cutting edge technology used to shave gram weight from components is absurd Somewhat unfairly, I consider the above as variations on a theme, rather than innovative new solutions. Three problems I'd like to see solved (admittedly, with no idea other than "by magic" at present): - It's absurdly easy to steal bicycles, locked up or ot…

These are all peripherals for your bike though, I agree totally these areas need more innovation :) ESPECIALLY bike theft.

These are all peripherals for your bike though

I don't honestly know about that, though; I can imagine each one of these being so integral to the bike itself that they simply couldn't be peripherals.

Agreed re: bike theft - but it also grates me that if I drive to the office, a sudden unexpected downpour makes zero difference to my life, whereas on my bike... wurgh.

Re: This is for bicycles what Tesla is for cars

#57

Post by masklinn » Thu, Sep 05, 2013, 10:34 AM UTC

nicholassmith wrote: post #43

That's a lot of money for a bicycle that is going to require some serious fitness to actually use as a bicycle. I like the idea of an ebike that's reasonable priced, but that's definitely not a bicycle in the traditional sense. Plus for that much money you could buy a reasonably decent actual bicycle (£1k-2k) and spend some time training. You'll be able to do the range (fuel required; cake goes in mouth) and not be t…

> Plus for that much money you could buy a reasonably decent actual bicycle (£1k-2k) and spend some time training.

For that much money you can also get a decent assisted bike a third the weight (or less). Hell, you can probably get 4.

Re: This is for bicycles what Tesla is for cars

#58

Post by Adirael » Thu, Sep 05, 2013, 10:36 AM UTC

masklinn wrote: post #13

quchen wrote: post #5

At a weight of 49 kg, this is way too heavy to be considered "sort of a bicycle". Pedelecs assist the rider, whereas here it's necessary to have a charged battery, or you'll feel like there's another person riding along with you. Taking a look from the other "what is a bicycle" side, this thing fills an interesting niche: even when you only have to pedal for 1% of the power in street mode, you're still pedaling, so i…

> At a weight of 49 kg, this is way too heavy to be considered "sort of a bicycle". Indeed, and for the price tag ($8000) you can get something like 4 brompton nanos (brompton foldable frame with an electric motor mod replacing the front wheel)

$8000? You can get an electric motorbike for that price tag. http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/shop/index.php?main_page=prod...

Re: This is for bicycles what Tesla is for cars

#59

Post by TheAnimus » Thu, Sep 05, 2013, 10:37 AM UTC

gjmulhol wrote: post #29

This, my friends, is an electric moped. I wouldn't pay 600 euro for it, let alone 6000. If you are looking for fuel economy, regular old-school gas mopeds can get >100mpg. Admittedly, though, they do not offer a tablet and fingerprint reader interface. This will only carry forward on the force of hype, not because it is a truly great product.

Why do I want a finger print reader? It doesn't strike me as practical.

On my bicycle I normally wear gloves, in London only for about 8 months do I wear gloves that don't cover my fingers. The only reason is a nasty one, sweat build up. I would on an electric bike want to wear finger protection and wind stopping gloves.

This whole concept strikes me of someone who hasn't thought about how it would be used on a standard day. 50kg is too much for most people to lug around manually. Where and how do you park this? If I didn't grab my hybrid and lug it up/down some stairs it would probably get nicked, and that is a bike worth only £800.

This has all the downside of a scooter, without the benefits.

Re: This is for bicycles what Tesla is for cars

#60

Post by aufreak3 » Thu, Sep 05, 2013, 10:50 AM UTC

The ones in this all feel more attractive - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/reviews/9943578/Electr.... I think that's because of the segway effect - it looks weird to be riding a vehicle while appearing to not "do" anything.

On the segway effect, I wonder what would've happened to the product had it been designed for rough riding and stunts first before it was targeted at the commuter.