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Algebra for All: Educators Challenge Idea That Math Skills Must Come Naturally

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Re: Algebra for All: Educators Challenge Idea That Math Skills Must Come Naturally

#2
This was somewhat buried in the article, and it deserves repetition:

"In many countries, math has long been recognized as a tough subject that can be mastered through hard work, said Tom Loveless, a scholar at the Brookings Institution who analyzes international math test results and cultural differences. Efforts to make math more fun or dress up textbooks are not the answer, he said."

It's absolutely shocking to me how many educators I've encountered (even and especially at the undergraduate and postgraduate levels) who dismiss a lack of basic mathematical proficiency by saying "Well, I was never good at math either!" If this article is an accurate representation of where American math education is headed, then for once I might feel optimistic about it.

Re: Algebra for All: Educators Challenge Idea That Math Skills Must Come Naturally

#5

This was somewhat buried in the article, and it deserves repetition: "In many countries, math has long been recognized as a tough subject that can be mastered through hard work, said Tom Loveless, a scholar at the Brookings Institution who analyzes international math test results and cultural differences. Efforts to make math more fun or dress up textbooks are not the answer, he said." It's absolutely shocking to me…

RE: "Well, I was never good at math either!"

Even more upsetting to me (as a horrible math student in K-12) was: "Well, you'll never really use this in the real world anyway. But you should learn it. Now stop asking 'Why?'"

It is almost impossible to learn something if you have no interest in it, and it's difficult to develop an interest in something very complicated without at least a basic understanding of WHY you should be interested in it. Calculus is incredibly interesting and useful, but not to someone who is having it rammed down their throat via rote memorization without any explanation of the overarching principles or reasons for its existence. "Plug and chug" was the only instructional approach my HS teachers understood.

In high school, I loved science but hated math. I was actually classified as being math-phobic. I learned a bit of statistics for my science projects (Westinghouse, ISEF, etc.) because I needed it, but didn't really learn any other math until I taught myself in my 20s. I just skipped any math that wasn't absolutely mandatory in high school, and even the mandatory classes were very poorly taught. I basically just soaked up enough facts in my short-term memory to pass tests, but I didn't understand how anything related or why you actually did anything. And I didn't worry about it, because not a single teacher I had could ever give me a simple example of why you needed to know any of it or what you could use it for. When I asked what calculus was good for, for example, I was told "passing tests." They said if you became a doctor or an engineer you had to know it, but otherwise you would never use it. I asked why doctors and engineers needed to know it if it was so useless, and they usually just shrugged!

I only became interested enough to actually learn math once I saw practical uses for it in my own life (in finance and programming, mostly.) Self-instruction was a struggle, because I lacked any sort of basic foundation. I almost had to start from scratch. I still have relatively poor math skills, but I can get work done and actually enjoy doing calculations now. A big turnaround from being completely math-phobic. I've easily spent $5K on self-instructional math materials (which sounds ridiculous, I know, but I like video instruction and it's usually expensive.)

I'm angry that I avoided math and was scared of math for a decade because not one teacher I had could provide a reason to open the book beyond "you have to learn it." If I hadn't developed an interest in software and finance, I would probably still be as ignorant of math as I was when I graduated high school.

Re: Algebra for All: Educators Challenge Idea That Math Skills Must Come Naturally

#6
post #5

This was somewhat buried in the article, and it deserves repetition: "In many countries, math has long been recognized as a tough subject that can be mastered through hard work, said Tom Loveless, a scholar at the Brookings Institution who analyzes international math test results and cultural differences. Efforts to make math more fun or dress up textbooks are not the answer, he said." It's absolutely shocking to me…

RE: "Well, I was never good at math either!" Even more upsetting to me (as a horrible math student in K-12) was: "Well, you'll never really use this in the real world anyway. But you should learn it. Now stop asking 'Why?'" It is almost impossible to learn something if you have no interest in it, and it's difficult to develop an interest in something very complicated without at least a basic understanding of WHY you…

I think that $5K of stuff is nothing compared to what public schools spend to fail to teach math :)

(Per student, but over the course of several years, and taking into account that he was buying stuff just for himself, whereas at a school each video could be shown to 30+ people.)

Re: Algebra for All: Educators Challenge Idea That Math Skills Must Come Naturally

#7
I still think some people have dyscalculia. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyscalculia)

I think I am one of those people. Even after spending 8-10 hours on one problem, with tutors, teachers, and the willingness to learn, I am usually unable to grok it.

And then the minute I learn it, and then move on to something else, the old math knowledge is forgotten.

I do not have this problem with language. I scored an 800 on the verbal of the old SAT (the best you can do).

For some -- and I believe I am one of them -- higher math is just impossible.

Re: Algebra for All: Educators Challenge Idea That Math Skills Must Come Naturally

#8
post #7

I still think some people have dyscalculia. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyscalculia ) I think I am one of those people. Even after spending 8-10 hours on one problem, with tutors, teachers, and the willingness to learn, I am usually unable to grok it. And then the minute I learn it, and then move on to something else, the old math knowledge is forgotten. I do not have this problem with language. I scored an 800 on…

Can you post a quick example of the sort of problems you were trying to solve, and a hit at why you might have had difficulty with it?

Re: Algebra for All: Educators Challenge Idea That Math Skills Must Come Naturally

#9
My favorite quotation on math learning (used as my tagline where I first started using this screen name):

"The proper thing for a parent to say is, 'I did badly at mathematics, but I had a very bad teacher. I wish I had had a good one.'" W. W. Sawyer, Vision in Elementary Mathematics (1964), page 5.

By the way, the cited book is indeed very good for learning math.

Re: Algebra for All: Educators Challenge Idea That Math Skills Must Come Naturally

#10
post #5

This was somewhat buried in the article, and it deserves repetition: "In many countries, math has long been recognized as a tough subject that can be mastered through hard work, said Tom Loveless, a scholar at the Brookings Institution who analyzes international math test results and cultural differences. Efforts to make math more fun or dress up textbooks are not the answer, he said." It's absolutely shocking to me…

RE: "Well, I was never good at math either!" Even more upsetting to me (as a horrible math student in K-12) was: "Well, you'll never really use this in the real world anyway. But you should learn it. Now stop asking 'Why?'" It is almost impossible to learn something if you have no interest in it, and it's difficult to develop an interest in something very complicated without at least a basic understanding of WHY you…

I've easily spent $5K on self-instructional math materials (which sounds ridiculous, I know

That doesn't sound ridiculous to me, although I don't think I've spent that much on tangible math instruction materials yet for my four homeschooled children. The total budget for my oldest son, including travel expenses to summer math programs and gasoline for travel to local programs, has surely exceeded that by now. I'll open a separate thread

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=633540

on the present value of knowing math well, which I have wished to do for a while.

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