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Does pressing the pedestrian crossing button actually do anything?

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Does pressing the pedestrian crossing button actually do anything?

#61

Post by mcv »

mikelward wrote: post #46

Often in Australia, pressing the button makes the pedestrian light go green. But it has no effect on signal order (it goes green when cars traveling in the same direction get a green light). What's the point of making us press a button in this case? Why not give pedestrians a green light automatically? Even more obnoxious are intersections where the pedestrian light times out from green to red, but cars still have a…

When I was young, on my route to school there was a bicycle crossing that worked like this. Cars always have green unless there's a car approaching from the side street. Bikes always have red unless they press the button. So when I approach at reasonable speed and see that the cars have green, I have to stop, press the button, and then build up all that speed again.

Nobody does that. Until there was a police car hidden just after that crossing. I suspect it was a very good day for fines.

Re: Does pressing the pedestrian crossing button actually do anything?

#62

Post by smacktoward »

e40 wrote: post #49
mikelward wrote: post #46

Often in Australia, pressing the button makes the pedestrian light go green. But it has no effect on signal order (it goes green when cars traveling in the same direction get a green light). What's the point of making us press a button in this case? Why not give pedestrians a green light automatically? Even more obnoxious are intersections where the pedestrian light times out from green to red, but cars still have a…

It seems traffic planners don't care about pedestrians. You got that right. I walk 4+ miles/day on city streets and I've noticed a steady erosion of rules designed to make pedestrian life safer and easier. What you mentioned above and this: In addition to lights which are timed to not give a "go" signal to pedestrians unless they push the button, I've run across one that will make you wait until the next cycle unless…

At least you have sidewalks!

It amazes me how many communities (here in the USA, at least) just completely omit them altogether. They're so car-oriented that they actually deny the possibility of walking altogether. You get the feeling that they'd ban shoes if they could. Depressing.

Re: Does pressing the pedestrian crossing button actually do anything?

#63

Post by driverdan »

andyjohnson0 wrote: post #12
thom wrote: post #7

There's some next-level traffic light voodoo I often see people attempting in the UK, which is repeatedly pressing the button. I like the idea that it's a democratic process: only when pedestrians outnumber cars will the lights change.

I've seen people do this with the Clear button on calculators. They press it repeatedly, presumably in the belief that extra presses make it "really cancel". Something to do with their mental model of the calculator's internal state?

Some calculators do function this way. Pressing the clear button once clears the current screen but doesn't clear the equation. Pressing twice clears everything.

Re: Does pressing the pedestrian crossing button actually do anything?

#64

Post by harimau »

Over the past few years in my neighborhood in Los Angeles they have been replacing the older yellow buttons (that people tend to hit 10 million times thinking it will make the light change faster) with newer ones, which are really great. When the button is pressed, makes a loud click, a red light comes on, and it stays depressed until the signal changes. They've also added in that rat-a-tat-tat clicking that I assume is for blind people. Some people still pounce the button but I've noticed most tap it a single time. I'm a big fan and I'm sure the city is too as it probably cuts down on wear and tear.

In terms of actual crossing, it is worth hitting the button at some lights, so that they know there are pedestrians (otherwise it could be a green light and you still have a red hand) and other times there's always a way for a pedestrian to cross, usually with a countdown timer after a certain amount of seconds. Every ped crossing in LA seems to have a countdown timer, which is great, for peds and even drivers (it gives you an idea when the light is about to change).

And remember, this is Los Angeles, not really a city known for pedestrians so I think the city has done a good job for the most part.

Re: Does pressing the pedestrian crossing button actually do anything?

#65

Post by teovall »

AshleysBrain wrote: post #31

I think there's a good reason to have buttons that do nothing: it improves usability. Imagine teaching a child how to cross the road. The instructions are: 1) press the button 2) wait for green man 3) cross Now imagine we took away the buttons that do nothing. Now you need two cases, or branching: look for button; if button is present, press it; otherwise just wait - then cross. Obviously this is still trivial but ra…

Having the buttons everywhere also provides for future flexibility.

Just because a button is ignored now, doesn't mean that it will always be. Special events, changing traffic patterns, or changes to traffic flow optimization strategies may some day necessitate the use of the button.

If the button wasn't already there, it would have to be installed, which takes time, money, and planning.

Re: Does pressing the pedestrian crossing button actually do anything?

#66

Post by zem »

in the usa, i've definitely seen lights where a larger road crossed a smaller one, and the small road green light stayed green longer if someone had pressed the pedestrian crossing button. which does seem like a sensible use of the button - from a flow-control point of view you want the large road green a lot more of the time than you want the small one green, but if someone is walking across they're going to be potentially a lot slower than the traffic (people with walkers, e.g.)

Re: Does pressing the pedestrian crossing button actually do anything?

#68

Post by pbhjpbhj »

raverbashing wrote: post #36
pbhjpbhj wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No system can make sense of these requests, and the traffic has to flow. Makes sense to just go through the movements and ignore the buttons. // One may not be able to mathematically ensure optimal operation but you can certainly "make sense" of the requests. Surely you read the inputs and only include the pedestrian crossings in the lighting sequence if the buttons are activated. Unless you're halting the traffic…

"and only include the pedestrian crossings in the lighting sequence if the buttons are activated" That works for a pedestrian crossing, but not where we have two lanes of cars crossing. Or if you think in more complicated crossings like O'Connell Bridge in Dublin, there's probably no way the buttons could have any input in the lights there without messing the traffic. Not sure what the cameras you mentioned do, maybe…

Some crossings here, UK, have turn filters; some have full pedestrian access (ie diagonal crossing of a crossroads is enabled). Whilst it's possible to have a sequence in which some roads necessarily have halted traffic usually on single carriageway roads [one lane per direction] it's still an optimisation to ignore the pedestrian phase of the sequence.
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