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How to Teach a Child to Argue

figarospeech.com

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Re: How to Teach a Child to Argue

#21

Post by northwind »

sketerpot wrote: post #12

There's a lot of merit in what the author calls "argument by the stick", arguments in which convincing the other guy is not the primary goal. If you argue with someone in public , as in most online arguments, simply making your opponent look stupid can make the onlookers more likely to agree with you. I've seen this happen in creationism/evolution debates: the only way to win a debate with a creationist is by trounci…

Arguments won via "Argument by The Stick" will work only as long as our institutions of learning continue turning out more sheeple than rational humans (once upon a time, this was not true in the U.S.; I know because an elderly friend of mine was required to take a "Critical Thinking" class in high school).

As for the "advertising immunization shots" the author of the article talks about, the authors experience is beautiful confirmation of what C.S. Lewis writes in the first few chapters of "The Abolition of Man".

Re: How to Teach a Child to Argue

#22

Post by dusklight »

inigojones wrote: post #7

> Dorothy: “Dad, you look tired. Want to sit down?” > Me: “Thanks. Where did you have in mind?” > Dorothy: “Ben & Jerry’s.” There's a difference between argument through reason and manipulation. I think this guy is teaching his kids to be manipulative. The little dialog above shows that the daughter doesn't care a wit about how her father feels, she's just using the emotion as a point of leverage. If I had kids and t…

But now you are putting your own ethics on the concept of manipulation.

If we are taught manipulation is wrong, we never learn how to use it and we are less able to defend against it, and it puts us at a disadvantage when we have to deal with a less scrupulous person who doesn't have a problem using it.

Instead if we are taught that manipulation is a tool, and like any tool can be used for good or evil depending on the tool user, maybe we would get less upset at the beer commercial with the twins in wet t-shirts, but also we would be less affected by it.

Re: How to Teach a Child to Argue

#25

Post by stcredzero »

sketerpot wrote: post #12

There's a lot of merit in what the author calls "argument by the stick", arguments in which convincing the other guy is not the primary goal. If you argue with someone in public , as in most online arguments, simply making your opponent look stupid can make the onlookers more likely to agree with you. I've seen this happen in creationism/evolution debates: the only way to win a debate with a creationist is by trounci…

If you argue with someone in public, as in most online arguments, simply making your opponent look stupid can make the onlookers more likely to agree with you.

Unfortunately, this is a double-edged sword. Often, victory is achieved in ways that damage reasoned public discourse, even when the "right" side wins. And the "right" side doesn't always win.

Re: How to Teach a Child to Argue

#26

Post by RiderOfGiraffes »

iigs wrote: post #6
RiderOfGiraffes wrote: post #3

Excellent article. Couple this with Dale Carnegie (the real stuff, not the manipulative fluff people try to peddle) and you get real people that you can discuss things with.

What is the "real stuff" by name? I am not familiar and would like to investigate further.

As said - "How to Win Friends and Influence People."

It's old, it's dated, in places it's laughable, but it contains amazingly useful advice. It seems trite and shallow, but it's astonishingly effective.

If you read it as a complete cynic you'll have plenty to laugh at and get nothing of lasting value. If you try to gain insight from it, reading past the no-longer-relevant examples to find the intended truths, you will have the means to be a better person, and accomplish much, much more.

Yes, that's a rave review. Perhaps I hold the book in such high regard because it was exactly what I needed at exactly the time I needed it, but I still reference it to this day and ask "What could I do better?"

Re: How to Teach a Child to Argue

#27

Post by maneesh »

tokenadult wrote: post #16

I immediately emailed the link to my sixteen-year-old son, so that he and I can discuss it. (He's off to the ARML Central Region tournament, so he won't see it right away.) I too like the idea that learning how to usefully disagree is an important life skill.

I did ARML, good for him :)

Re: How to Teach a Child to Argue

#30

Post by pubbins »

stcredzero wrote: post #24

5. Let kids win sometimes. Some parents have a problem with this. I remember a conversation where a woman volunteered that she completely suppressed her kids every time. She was absolutely proud of this fact.

I very rarely let my kids win anything. You can play games of chance or setup situations where they can win. In the situation described in the blog post it's really a judgement call for the father - if the child was able to present a good argument, then she wins.

Kids whose parents let them win consistently have their world views shattered when they find out that they aren't the best at everything. These children are usually poor sports at winning and losing.

My boys are pretty happy when they beat their old man and I'm proud of them when they do.

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