Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Our Newfound Fear of Risk

schneier.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

161–170 of 195 posts

Re: Our Newfound Fear of Risk

#161

Post by tedks »

nitrogen wrote: post #149
tedks wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Almost none of those are good ideas. Walking alone is an exception; it's very easy for one momentary lapse to cause death or permanent damage in any of the others. One of mother's best friends died riding in the back of a pickup truck; car accidents are common, but all that happened in her case was that the road had a pothole, she fell, and happened to hit her head too hard and in the wrong spot. My girlfriend in col…

Almost none of those are good ideas. You're right; riding in the back of a pickup truck is not a good idea. It's either a great idea and lots of fun for short distances on low-traffic roads at low speeds, or the only way to get work done because getting into and out of the cab takes too long. it's very easy for one momentary lapse to cause death or permanent damage in any of the others. As it is when swimming, hiking…

>As it is when swimming, hiking, driving, swallowing food, shaving, etc. Everything that's worth doing carries risk.

I don't think I could die if anyone made a momentary lapse of judgment on hacker news; and yet here we both are.

Re: Our Newfound Fear of Risk

#162

Post by tedks »

NoPiece wrote: post #154
tedks wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Almost none of those are good ideas. Walking alone is an exception; it's very easy for one momentary lapse to cause death or permanent damage in any of the others. One of mother's best friends died riding in the back of a pickup truck; car accidents are common, but all that happened in her case was that the road had a pothole, she fell, and happened to hit her head too hard and in the wrong spot. My girlfriend in col…

The point isn't whether they are good ideas, but to illustrate that perception of risk really has changed. So much so that the anti-risk mentality has been codified. No kids wore helmets 30 years, now they have to by law. I'm just surprised that people would argue with the premise that people are more risk averse now. With that said, while almost always ride with a bike helmet, when I was in NYC this summer, I joyous…

>I'm just surprised that people would argue with the premise that people are more risk averse now.

I'm very clearly not arguing with that, but there's a difference between the TSA existing and wearing bike helmets.

I'm glad you didn't die while riding without a helmet, but I don't think there's any core part of the human experience that depends on eschewing small, cheap safety practices for massive risks.

Re: Our Newfound Fear of Risk

#163

Post by RougeFemme »

jessaustin wrote: post #58
RougeFemme wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Prior to 9/11, at least in the U.S., hijackers typically "simply" wanted money or to be flown elsewhere. As long as those demands were met, there were no casualties. So it wasn't that it was "too risky" to fight back - it was that hijacking was generally not considered life-threatening. The original reactions on 9/11 were not due solely to "social engineering", but to prior experience.

That high-pitched noise you heard was the point, zinging swiftly over your head. All the pre-9/11 "experts" who told us to bend over and let the goat enthusiasts have their wicked way with us, didn't do so in a nuanced, situationally-aware fashion. They said, "always cooperate with hijackers." The fact that organizations existed the purposes of which were to kill Americans and destroy American resources, was blithely…

No, didn't miss the point - just didn't agree. Pre 9/11, we didn't have a plethora of "risk" experts telling us what to do. Most people listened to news - good, bad, or indifferent - parsed it for themselves and acted accordingly - not according to what the seldom-heard-from experts said.

Re: Our Newfound Fear of Risk

#164

Post by api »

mtdewcmu wrote: post #159
acabal wrote: post #80

I think it's become a cultural thing, unfortunately. I've spent the last few years seeing the world, and the difference in attitudes between the people of many other countries and Americans at home is striking. We've become a fear-based culture. I have an anecdote from a month or two ago. My girlfriend--she's German--and I were in Boston's central park, where there's a wading pool for children. The place was extremel…

The most unfortunate part isn't that we worry too much -- it's that we worry about the wrong things. Not enough people seem to be concerned about the unaffordability of health insurance, or the fact that 401k plans are unlikely to cover retirement.

I'm suspicious that this is constructed, and is precisely the idea. American TV is one long stream of things to be afraid of-- other than the things you should be afraid of. It's distraction.

Re: Our Newfound Fear of Risk

#165

Post by api »

sliverstorm wrote: post #121
pzuraq wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a ridiculous comparison, The fact of the matter is that those decisions are completely logical. Whether or not global warming is happening, we will run out of fossil fuels and fissionable material eventually. Solar is renewable, self sustaining. By building out solar Germany is reducing there dependence on foreign countries and securing there future; Possibly helping to reduce global warming is just icing on t…

Solar is renewable, self sustaining The sun is, but what about the raw materials needed to make the panels?

Panels are not irreversibly diluted or consumed. They just "fall apart" at the molecular level and have to be recycled.

Re: Our Newfound Fear of Risk

#166

Post by api »

lectrick wrote: post #151
acabal wrote: post #80

I think it's become a cultural thing, unfortunately. I've spent the last few years seeing the world, and the difference in attitudes between the people of many other countries and Americans at home is striking. We've become a fear-based culture. I have an anecdote from a month or two ago. My girlfriend--she's German--and I were in Boston's central park, where there's a wading pool for children. The place was extremel…

Boston's a poor example. It's possibly the most socially-conservative place on earth I've ever lived in other than a Muslim country.

Tangent: I lived in Boston for a while. I'm glad to read stuff like this as it reminds me that it wasn't me.

PSA: Boston is not liberal, except a little bit in the abstract NPR "latte sipping" academic sense. Culturally it is unbelievably, stiflingly conservative, far more so than "red states" for example.

Re: Our Newfound Fear of Risk

#167

Post by mjallday »

acabal wrote: post #80

I think it's become a cultural thing, unfortunately. I've spent the last few years seeing the world, and the difference in attitudes between the people of many other countries and Americans at home is striking. We've become a fear-based culture. I have an anecdote from a month or two ago. My girlfriend--she's German--and I were in Boston's central park, where there's a wading pool for children. The place was extremel…

> Unfortunately I don't know what to do about it other than move to a different, more emotionally stable country. Culture is hard to change and takes a generation.

That seems extreme. The situation you describe seems directly under control of the parents. Eg you can solve this for your child by simply not subscribing to that culture.

Re: Our Newfound Fear of Risk

#168

Post by nitrogen »

dredmorbius wrote: post #157
nitrogen wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Though really, all this says is that even under a renewables scheme, we're not going to be able to provide power at the level some have come to expect for the population we've now got (7 billion) or are projected to have (10 billion). This is best viewed as an engineering problem; those are much easier to solve than social problems.

It's not an engineering problem to the extent that you've got populations whose very existence depends on these energy streams. At that point, it becomes a rather pressing existential problem. You cannot simply "engineer" more energy into existence. Yes, there's quite a bit more energy striking Earth every day from the sun than humans use today. However it's not in forms we can utilize directly, other than simply bas…

Well, either we find a way to give people what they want, through efficiency or new energy sources, or America keeps bombing the Middle East. And I expect viable fusion to be easier to solve than the politics of a world running out of energy.

Re: Our Newfound Fear of Risk

#169

Post by akshatpradhan »

petervandijck wrote: post #108
acabal wrote: post #80

I think it's become a cultural thing, unfortunately. I've spent the last few years seeing the world, and the difference in attitudes between the people of many other countries and Americans at home is striking. We've become a fear-based culture. I have an anecdote from a month or two ago. My girlfriend--she's German--and I were in Boston's central park, where there's a wading pool for children. The place was extremel…

Which leads to a culture where everyone is afraid of touching kids that are not their own. It's really sad.

Absolutely true. My g/f coos at other people's kids, but I look the other direction. The last thing I want is a liability for friendliness.
Post reply on HN