Microsoft to acquire Nokia • Hacker News Board

Re: Microsoft to acquire Nokia

#111

Post by lnanek2 » Tue, Sep 03, 2013, 1:43 PM UTC

joe_the_user wrote: post #64

kyro wrote: post #23

Great move by Microsoft. This is an acquisition that arguably puts Microsoft mobile capabilities above that of Google's, and closest to Apple's. They're getting industry veterans with great design talent. They're getting a Lumia product that has the best build quality of any non-Apple smart phone. They're acquiring proven channels to access global markets. Both Nokia and Microsoft have been floundering in the mobile…

This is an acquisition that arguably puts Microsoft mobile capabilities above that of Google's, and closest to Apple's. To have this loltastic sentence at the top of hn makes me wonder if MS or some PR has a bunch of shill accounts they roll out for occasions like this. Seriously? As the other reply said, they were already together. And losing. Badly. And hated, broadly. And the reason the windows phone sucks so badl…

I'll always be an Android user, but even I admit the current Windows Phone UI is cleaner, looks better, and is easier to use. I don't have stats, but I can certainly throw my anecdotes in that people I see get them are happy with the UI and OS, although the don't have the level of apps the other platforms have.

Re: Microsoft to acquire Nokia

#112

Post by sravfeyn » Tue, Sep 03, 2013, 1:50 PM UTC

This news may sound exciting/disappointing to the developed countries, but it is certainly extremely disappointing for people in third-world countries, especially India.

It is not at all hyperbole to say 'Nokia played a key role in India's mobile penetration'. They sell affordable, reliable and rigid phones for rough use in rural places of India. And I think it's true for most other countries like Africa. On the other hand Microsoft mostly makes premium software and hardware. I don't know any affordable tool(w.r.t developing countries) from Microsoft. This may put Microsoft in a better position in terms of smartphone. But in other terms this may be a step towards 'diminishing power of poor people'.

Re: Microsoft to acquire Nokia

#113

Post by vshade » Tue, Sep 03, 2013, 2:00 PM UTC

sravfeyn wrote: post #112

This news may sound exciting/disappointing to the developed countries, but it is certainly extremely disappointing for people in third-world countries, especially India. It is not at all hyperbole to say 'Nokia played a key role in India's mobile penetration'. They sell affordable, reliable and rigid phones for rough use in rural places of India. And I think it's true for most other countries like Africa. On the othe…

On the other hand, the low end lumias are more usable than most of same priced android phones in Brazil, I know that here and parts of africa is the way the market is going. I hope they don't stop serving this market.

Re: Microsoft to acquire Nokia

#114

Post by simonh » Tue, Sep 03, 2013, 2:11 PM UTC

rbanffy wrote: post #91

simonh wrote: post #62

This is the ultimate indictment of Steve Ballmer's "I like our strategy, I like it a lot" statement. This is the final admission that their strategy of licensing a mobile OS to phone manufacturers, just as they licensed desktop Windows to PC makers, has completely failed. This must have been in the works for months, so now finally the other shoe has dropped and we know why he had to leave. There's no way he could sav…

> This must have been in the works for months This thing started before Elop left Microsoft. They have perfected executive outplacement as an offensive weapon.

An amusing thought, but if Microsoft was that effective at executing covert strategic initiatives, you'd think that would cross over into their public strategic capability. Sadly the evidence of events over the last few years doesn't bear that out.

Re: Microsoft to acquire Nokia

#115

Post by simonh » Tue, Sep 03, 2013, 2:14 PM UTC

Jare wrote: post #95

rbanffy wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is an acquisition that arguably puts Microsoft mobile capabilities above that of Google's, and closest to Apple's. Man.. What have you been smoking? > They're getting industry veterans with great design talent Who consistently failed to exceed 3% of market share. > They're acquiring proven channels to access global markets. Very low-margin markets. > Both Nokia and Microsoft have been floundering in the mobile…

> According to your logic, two bricks tied together float better than one. A sail doesn't float and a hull doesn't move, but together they can make great boats

They're already making great boats, but nobody's* buying them.

* For nominal values of 'nobody'.

Re: Microsoft to acquire Nokia

#116

Post by count » Tue, Sep 03, 2013, 2:34 PM UTC

dangrossman wrote: post #47

count wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if such bundling will be an issue with their existing anti-trust issues?

Microsoft hasn't had real anti-trust issues in a while. Windows 8 did lots of things they wouldn't have gotten away with 15 years ago; nobody's going after them because they don't really wield the monopoly power they once did.

My understanding is that Microsoft, like IBM and ATT before it, was permanently disallowed to do certain things? I understand that nobody is/has gone after them (yet?), but is that just prosecutorial oversight/prioritization issues, or is there actually nothing wrong?

Re: Microsoft to acquire Nokia

#117

Post by mpyne » Tue, Sep 03, 2013, 2:52 PM UTC

rbanffy wrote: post #106

kyro wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The simplest way to vet that explanation was to simply click on my profile and see that I've been here for years with a karma count that certainly doesn't trip any shill account alarms.

I made a direct reply to your comment as well. Sorry if it looks like I am accusing you of being part of a deliberate PR attack on online communities. I still agree, however, with joe_the_user's comment: your claim looks a lot like what an astroturfer would say.

Then maybe you should recalibrate your expectation of what a comment is supposed to say a little bit, as any comment in support of some company's products is going to 'look a lot like what an astroturfer would say'.

Astroturfing is only one of many possible motives for a comment being left. We should not be so quick to jump on that as an explanation for anything which doesn't agree with our notions.

Re: Microsoft to acquire Nokia

#118

Post by evilduck » Tue, Sep 03, 2013, 3:47 PM UTC

rbanffy wrote: post #109

harrytuttle wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps people are motivated by the news and wish to defend their knowledge investments? It's not a failure, nor is it a success. Yet. People were saying this a decade ago about the Xbox remember. Microsoft only decided to compete just over two years ago and they're entering a very competitive market. It takes time to get traction on these things and they're doing it, just slowly. The potential to grow exponentially…

> People were saying this a decade ago about the Xbox remember. The Xbox was a failure. The Xbox 360 was better executed than the more ambitious PS3. It succeeded while the PS3 did not do so well, yet the PS3 is far from being a failure. > Microsoft only decided to compete just over two years ago You are ignoring the decade+ behind WindowsCE and Windows Mobile. Microsoft has always been a player in this market.

The 360 is only "not a failure" because the rest of MS had been keeping the XBox division's life support going for 5 years (their worst years being the 2 immediately following the 360's release). While they're no longer bleeding cash, the XBox division is still not a net-gain for Microsoft.

http://www.neowin.net/news/report-microsofts-xbox-division-h...

Re: Microsoft to acquire Nokia

#119

Post by tanzam75 » Tue, Sep 03, 2013, 4:08 PM UTC

rbanffy wrote: post #109

harrytuttle wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps people are motivated by the news and wish to defend their knowledge investments? It's not a failure, nor is it a success. Yet. People were saying this a decade ago about the Xbox remember. Microsoft only decided to compete just over two years ago and they're entering a very competitive market. It takes time to get traction on these things and they're doing it, just slowly. The potential to grow exponentially…

> People were saying this a decade ago about the Xbox remember. The Xbox was a failure. The Xbox 360 was better executed than the more ambitious PS3. It succeeded while the PS3 did not do so well, yet the PS3 is far from being a failure. > Microsoft only decided to compete just over two years ago You are ignoring the decade+ behind WindowsCE and Windows Mobile. Microsoft has always been a player in this market.

> You are ignoring the decade+ behind WindowsCE and Windows Mobile. Microsoft has always been a player in this market.

It was a very different market that Windows Mobile competed in. A market that emphasized physical keyboards, rather than touchscreens. A market with $200 device subsidies, rather than $400 smartphone subsidies. That market disappeared, and so did Windows Mobile's chances. In fact, every major product from that market is either dead or on life-support. Palm, Blackberry, Symbian.

Today, Windows Phone 8 shares very little code with Windows Mobile 6.5. Maybe some drivers, that's about it. It uses a different kernel, a different UI toolkit, a different API.

Microsoft failed horribly in the PC spreadsheet market, too. But they threw away their original product (Multiplan) and ported Excel to the PC. Laughing at Multiplan's failure would've been irrelevant when discussing the prospects for Excel. The introduction of the GUI disrupted the existing market for DOS spreadsheets.

Similarly, the failure of Windows Mobile 6.5 is irrelevant for the purposes of discussing Windows Phone's prospects. The problem with Windows Phone is that not that Windows Mobile failed -- but that Windows Phone has a low market share.

Re: Microsoft to acquire Nokia

#120

Post by tanzam75 » Tue, Sep 03, 2013, 4:21 PM UTC

count wrote: post #116

dangrossman wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft hasn't had real anti-trust issues in a while. Windows 8 did lots of things they wouldn't have gotten away with 15 years ago; nobody's going after them because they don't really wield the monopoly power they once did.

My understanding is that Microsoft, like IBM and ATT before it, was permanently disallowed to do certain things? I understand that nobody is/has gone after them (yet?), but is that just prosecutorial oversight/prioritization issues, or is there actually nothing wrong?

Yes.

For example, Microsoft is permanently enjoined from restricting OEM crapware preloads. OEMs are allowed to preload whatever they wish on top of Windows.

However, it's perfectly fine for Microsoft to bundle an app store -- so long as an OEM is also allowed to load its own app store. (As Lenovo is doing.)

As for Windows RT and Windows Phone, Microsoft can do anything it wants. When the news came out that Windows RT would only allow Internet Explorer and would only allow programs to be loaded through the app store, the EU competition commissioner said in an interview that he saw nothing wrong with it.

That's because the antitrust case defined Microsoft's monopoly to be over x86 operating systems. Windows RT and Windows Phone run on ARM. What's more, Windows RT and Windows Phone do not have anywhere close to a monopoly of the tablet or smartphone markets.

There may be some tying issues, but branding is not a form of tying.