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The Deal That Makes No Sense

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Re: The Deal That Makes No Sense

#111

Post by ZeroGravitas »

iaskwhy wrote: post #56
rmc wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should it be abandoned? Just because the author isn't a fan of WP8? The general public aren't a fan of WP8 either.

20% of the general public in Poland, Mexico and some Eastern European countries don't agree with that claim. People forget how varied is the smartphone market across regions.

I can't find anything to back that claim up. The only thing I can find that's even close suggests that Nokia had 19% marketshare in Mexico for 2012, but based on other stats that's by far accounted for by Symbian devices:

http://www.statista.com/statistics/245193/market-share-of-mo...

Re: The Deal That Makes No Sense

#112

Post by eitally »

joshstrange wrote: post #86
harrytuttle wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't agree. Most of the general users I know forget their email password every time they fuck up their phone and just buy all the apps again. This is the norm. The only thing people give a shit about is their data (and that is usually when it's way to late and they're about to lose it), not the apps.

Who in their right mind would do something like this? Even the most technologically illiterate person I know understands how their Apple ID/Google Account works and that their purchases are tied to it. As for forgetting one's password, this is why just about every login form on the internet has a "Forgot Password" link/button. This is NOT the norm.

I disagree. My wife doesn't use the Apple appstore, at all. If she wants or needs an app (or if I think she does and endeavor to put it on her phone), I have to do it myself. I never remember her Apple ID password, even though I set it. I am certain she doesn't know it, either.

Re: The Deal That Makes No Sense

#113

Post by chris_wot »

mkr-hn wrote: post #108
chris_wot wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except the argument was that the general public aren't fans of Windows phones, to which 20% market share of a few regions was used as a counter argument. I would tend to think that market share is one indicator of a phone platform's popularity, and while 20% is not bad, it's not an amazing figure either.

I looked around for a chart of the iPhone's market share by year, but couldn't find one. I remember the iPhone having trouble in its first year or two, and most of WP8's credibility comes from the ~2 year old Lumia line.

True. In 2010 the iPhone only had about 4% market share. My only point is that I'm talking about popularity of existing devices. It may well be that Microsoft will turn it around!

Re: The Deal That Makes No Sense

#114

Post by GVIrish »

lnanek2 wrote: post #100
polemic wrote: post #11

> "...I think Microsoft ought to abandon Windows Phone. The war is over, and iOS and Android won." That's remarkably short-sighted. The first iPhone was released only 6 years ago, Android 5 years ago. You really think that Microsoft - a company with nearly infinite runway, an enormous R&D investment and serious history - is going to down tools after a few years of frustration? Not likely. The prize is too big and con…

And everyone thought XBox would be a consistent failure whereas the series ending up pioneering a lot of network service stuff and being well considered now.

Xbox didn't struggle for several years trying to achieve just 3% market share. I can guarantee you that if the Xbox only had 3% of the market today, Microsoft would've given up.

Clearly the mobile market is far bigger than the game console market, but fact of the matter is that the Xbox got far more traction early on than Windows Phone has ever gotten.

Re: The Deal That Makes No Sense

#115

Post by 300bps »

loxs wrote: post #109
300bps wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because Windows Phone does web and email better than iPhone. The primary way it is better is that the screen is so much bigger. This is easy to dismiss, but it makes a ton of UI hacks done for the iPhone needless. For example, the fact that the address bar isn't on the screen all the time is a hack to compensate for the small screen. Then that leads to a need for the hack where you click the top of the screen in the…

Well, Android has all of this, and then some more. Except maybe for the Nokia Maps. Haven't used it and can't say, but Google Maps on Android is FAR better than the iOS counterpart. So why Windows Phone and not Android?

Android and Windows Phone are both far superior to iPhone at this point. Between those two it comes down to personal preference. Windows Phone seems much more polished to me than Android. But I would be happy with a Galaxy S4. The only non-contender in my mind at this point is the iPhone. It has nothing going for it in comparison to the competition.

I have a Jelly Bean tablet with a 10.1" screen that I use every day and am happy with it.

Re: The Deal That Makes No Sense

#116

Post by bhauer »

JonoW wrote: post #34

I'm not sure why so many are predicting WPs death - it's actually doing pretty well outside the US. Here in the UK it's now just under 10%. Pundits are far too US orientated.

Not only that, but with today's homogeneity in hardware, the phone market takes some time to shift. I held onto my Android phone for my two year contract and replaced it with a Lumia 920. My wife's Nexus contract is expiring in a few months and she is considering a Lumia as well. That transaction will occur about a year after my last upgrade.

These things don't happen instantly now that so many devices are alike.

By comparison, when we adopted the first iPhone, it was a dramatic departure from previous cell phones and we had to have it immediately. Since then, we've just waited for our contract terms to expire.

Though I would interrupt my contract immediately if someone would deliver on personal application omnipresence, making a cell phone that is just a small touch-enabled view on my network and my applications.

Re: The Deal That Makes No Sense

#117

Post by Zigurd »

JonoW wrote: post #34

I'm not sure why so many are predicting WPs death - it's actually doing pretty well outside the US. Here in the UK it's now just under 10%. Pundits are far too US orientated.

I would dispute that WP is "doing well" anywhere except a handful of countries where Nokia previously dominated distribution.

Microsoft now owns all of Nokia's handset business, which is still 90%+ non-WP. As the S30, S40, and Asha base under WP evaporates, WP will have nothing to piggyback on in these markets.

Re: The Deal That Makes No Sense

#118

Post by snowwrestler »

Samuel_Michon wrote: post #28
7952 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are getting to a point where the power of the device is less of a distinguishing factor. Lots of people are satisfied with the hardware of the previous generation Iphone or lower spec'd Android Phones. If hardware prices continue to drop the feature phone market (which Nokia dominates) could easily turn into a low end smart phone market. The Windows Phone OS could actually be a good choice for this. This is also u…

I don’t understand that reasoning. Why would a phone maker choose Windows Phone over Android? – Android is cheaper than Windows Phone (many phone makers pay Microsoft to be able to use patents used in Android, but even then, Android is cheaper than Windows Phone) – Android has lower system requirements than Windows Phone – Android has a thriving app market, Windows Phone doesn’t Windows Phone low-end phones will only…

Now that Microsoft is buying Nokia, they will be making their own phones. I think the idea is that they will operate that division at a loss to undercut their competitors and gain share in the middle or bottom of the market.

Samsung and Apple both need to make money on their phones. Microsoft does not. Both Bing and Xbox were operated at a loss for years; it paid off for Xbox but not (yet?) for Bing.

Re: The Deal That Makes No Sense

#119

Post by vxNsr »

bad_user wrote: post #40
bodyfour wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Plus it's a prize Microsoft probably feels it can't afford to lose. If Android magically evaporated tomorrow Google would be just fine -- the core of their business (ad sales) doesn't fundamentally require that they control the mobile platform, although it certainly makes things easier. Microsoft, on the other hand, had for decades been the platform company. They've historically tried to grow by pushing out…

> If Android magically evaporated tomorrow Google would be just fine -- the core of their business (ad sales) doesn't fundamentally require that they control the mobile platform I do not agree. They don't necessarily need to control the mobile platform, but they do need access to the distribution channels. Witness how Apple replaced Google Maps with their own solution, even before their solution was good enough, as i…

>Witness how Apple replaced Google Maps with their own solution, even before their solution was good enough, as if they couldn't wait to get rid of GMaps. At some point not so long ago, they also threatened to replace Google's search engine with Bing by default.

You've got to admit though that, the move was highly political, from both sides, Apple didn't want to provide Google with a bunch of data so Google refused to allow Apple to have turn-by-turn directions (because they happened to be supporting a competing platform), so Apple basically said screw you Google, we'll make our own maps.

Re: The Deal That Makes No Sense

#120

Post by skc »

speeder wrote: post #48
Steko wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(1) 50% five years ago and already dropping. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ae/World-Wid... (2) Elop arrived in 2010 and Nokia was basically already done for.

I must disagree. In 2010 Nokia was 70% of Brazil smartphone market and their share was still rising, very fast. Symbian phones were known to.be solid, fast, and had apps and games ( even a port of counter strike! ) As soon Elop announced Symbian death, the whole thing tanked, and I cannot help but feel that Elop is stupid.

This would seem to imply that Brazilian consumers read the burning platform memo.

I highly doubt that. I have a huge problem with people flat out claiming that Symbian was an acceptably competitive phone offering in 2010. That's a bald faced lie in my opinion.

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