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Nokia acquired by Microsoft

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Re: Nokia acquired by Microsoft

#291

Post by gnaffle »

throwawaykf02 wrote: post #202
undoware wrote: post #48

Here's my take. Nokia's downfall has literally been the biggest business failure in the history of the planet - see communities-dominate.blogs.com for backstory. (As I mentioned in a previous post; I'm largely summarizing things Tomi proves with hard data.) My interpretation of this is that the increasingly untenable position of Stephen Elop began to incriminate the whole board, as any toppling of Elop would invite a…

I know a couple of savvy guys working for Intel's competitors moaning about how Intel is going to demolish them. Haswell and its descendants, it seems, are the real deal, and in the long term, they hold out little hope for ARM in the mobile space, let alone the server space. I dunno about Microsoft, but I wouldn't be betting against Intel. (Just to be clear, I have no stock in or position on any of the companies ment…

In the server space I agree. However, in the mobile space, ARM has a huge advantage of licensing their cores to dozens of SoC manufacturers that provide very appealing, integrated, low cost chips for mobile vendors to build products on. It's like the Android of the mobile processor market.

If Intel ever start leasing out their manufacturing process to SoC vendors to allow them to build whatever chips they want, then I'll be more optimistic about Intel on mobile.

Re: Nokia acquired by Microsoft

#292

Post by zuppy »

alextingle wrote: post #271
BuckRogers wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple already lost to Android. That's not true. Apple's mobile devices are more profitable than any single line of Android devices. Also, sales of the iPad vs any other line of Android tablets, ie. Samsung's are not even close. Your comparison is no different than comparing Windows Server vs Linux servers. Yes, it might have hurt the market for WinServer a little bit (and Apple's iOS devices), but it's not like any…

> but it's not like anyone is making a killing off of all those Linux/Android powered devices out there. Except the users. Users win big time when there's an effective open source option for them to choose.

Not really, users don't care about open source. Users care about apps and services. Most developers care about the platform with more users that are willing to spend money on apps and services. I'm not saying that there are no open source fans, just that this is not what brings the food on your plate at the end of the month.

Re: Nokia acquired by Microsoft

#293

Post by marcamillion »

sseveran wrote: post #262
marcamillion wrote: post #236

Why would MSFT highlight the fact that the cash is coming from overseas in the PR? Is there a tax benefit to doing something like that? Specifically: Under the terms of the agreement, Microsoft will pay EUR 3.79 billion to purchase substantially all of Nokia’s Devices & Services business, and EUR 1.65 billion to license Nokia’s patents, for a total transaction price of EUR 5.44 billion in cash. Microsoft will draw up…

It doesn't have to pay US taxes on money overseas to fund the transaction.

That's interesting.

Re: Nokia acquired by Microsoft

#294

Post by marcamillion »

RyJones wrote: post #249
marcamillion wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This particular deal point is interesting to me: Microsoft will also immediately make available to Nokia EUR 1.5 billion of financing in the form of three EUR 500 million tranches of convertible notes that Microsoft would fund from overseas resources. If Nokia decides to draw down on this financing option, Nokia would pay back these notes to Microsoft from the proceeds of the deal upon closing. The financing is not c…

Cheaper to buy them with money stuck overseas than repatriate and pay taxes on it.

True....very good point.

Interesting.

Re: Nokia acquired by Microsoft

#295

Post by mynameisvlad »

cageface wrote: post #233
macspoofing wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Your comparison is no different than comparing Windows Server vs Linux servers. I think a better comparison is Mac vs. Windows. Windows won, but Macs are still thriving, and Apple is making nice margins. This is how I see iOS vs. Android playing out.

Perhaps, but the difference here is that Macs are still better machines in most respects. Macs endure as a niche product because they're higher quality products. Premium Android phones, on the other hand, provide a user experience that a lot of people consider superior.

That argument is stupid. Please give a source for "a lot of people" considering it superior. A lot of people I know consider the iPhone/Apple ecosystem superior. And no, you can't use market share to back this up, as much as you might want to. Because that doesn't measure user experiences being considered superior. There's a lot more factors that go into market share; that's just one of them.

Re: Nokia acquired by Microsoft

#296

Post by DominikR »

To me, this is borderline criminal behaviour and shows once more that Microsoft is incapable of playing fair.

Installing a trojan horse as Nokias CEO, who then proceeds to destroy any value left in that company so that Microsoft can pick it up for a cheap price.

I'd be amazed if Elop is promoted to MS's CEO position for such deceitful behaviour

Re: Nokia acquired by Microsoft

#298

Post by mynameisvlad »

Samuel_Michon wrote: post #276
valleyer wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? Microsoft was terrifying because they dominated the PC market. This comment proposes their having 33% of the smartphone market. How is that "terrifying"?

Microsoft has a long history of not playing fair. If it were to have 33% of the market, it isn’t unthinkable that it will try all possible dirty tricks in the book to gain the upper hand. Right now, Windows Phone’s market share is negligible, Microsoft has zero leverage so it has to play by the book.

Microsoft is also a completely different company now than it was dozens of years ago when this was an issue. They're more safe now, less risky.

Re: Nokia acquired by Microsoft

#299

Post by itry »

DominikR wrote: post #296

To me, this is borderline criminal behaviour and shows once more that Microsoft is incapable of playing fair. Installing a trojan horse as Nokias CEO, who then proceeds to destroy any value left in that company so that Microsoft can pick it up for a cheap price. I'd be amazed if Elop is promoted to MS's CEO position for such deceitful behaviour

Interesting theory. Might indeed have been a plan. Microsoft was afraid that no hw manufacturer needed their os anymore. So they decided to build their own hardware. Fast way: Buy an exisiting Phone manufacturer.

Re: Nokia acquired by Microsoft

#300

Post by mynameisvlad »

mbreese wrote: post #208
psbp wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, a brilliant strategy to have an aging company buy a device maker that markets to an aging customer base.

No, it would have been brilliant. Microsoft is horrible at personal interfaces and trying to deal with actual people. But they are wonderful at enterprise. If either Microsoft or RIM had been able to say "Fine, we'll let Apple and Google play with their fancy new devices - we'll make products that let people actually get work done" that would have been a brilliant strategy. They could have completely dominated corpor…

BYOD wouldn't have changed much. The entire reason this is happening is because people like consumer-centric products above enterprise-grade products. They work better for people vs working better for enterprises, which is what Microsoft+RIM would have focused on. It doesn't matter how many enterprise features a phone has, if people don't like using it, it won't be used.
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