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Nokia acquired by Microsoft

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Re: Nokia acquired by Microsoft

#261

Post by leaffig »

shmerl wrote: post #254
leaffig wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This already happened with attack on VP8 even without any acquisition. MS hand behind it was not even very hidden. Nokia was really starving for money and wanted to monetize their patents, and saw VP8 as a threat. Instead of waiting for it to be popular and then pounce, they pre-emptively requested Google(which is rolling in dough) to license their patents. They did spend a lot on R&D in their heyday, they're not a…

>Nokia was really starving for money and wanted to monetize their patents, and saw VP8 as a threat. I doubt it. It looked more like an attack on the open web. MS and Apple always didn't like open codecs. They never even implemented them in their browsers and products. Nokia is not part of MPEG-LA, so they aren't really direct competitors codecs wise. So I see no point for Nokia themselves to be such jerks as to attac…

That doesn't make any sense. Microsoft pays more for H.264 licenses than what it gets. Shipping VP8 with Windows will only open them to more patent lawsuits since Google doesn't indemnify VP8 users from patent suits.

http://blogs.windows.com/windows/b/bloggingwindows/archive/2...

Google will be the least affected by patent trolls with VP8, they only have to pay license fees on Nexus devices, Chromebooks, Motorola devices which are barely a handful compared to the number of Windows devices, iDevices and other Android devices.

>So I see no point for Nokia themselves to be such jerks as to attack open codecs

Except for one big reason, to monetize their patents.

Re: Nokia acquired by Microsoft

#262

Post by sseveran »

marcamillion wrote: post #236

Why would MSFT highlight the fact that the cash is coming from overseas in the PR? Is there a tax benefit to doing something like that? Specifically: Under the terms of the agreement, Microsoft will pay EUR 3.79 billion to purchase substantially all of Nokia’s Devices & Services business, and EUR 1.65 billion to license Nokia’s patents, for a total transaction price of EUR 5.44 billion in cash. Microsoft will draw up…

It doesn't have to pay US taxes on money overseas to fund the transaction.

Re: Nokia acquired by Microsoft

#263

Post by cageface »

chrischen wrote: post #239
cageface wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The car analogy gets trotted out over and over again when talking about smart phone market share but it really doesn't work at all. Smart phone ecosystems have powerful network effects that just don't exist for most luxury goods.

Ok, then go by profit.

Samsung is very quickly closing that gap. This is likely to snowball if iOS's share starts dipping into single digits.

Re: Nokia acquired by Microsoft

#264

Post by cageface »

philwelch wrote: post #244
cageface wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps, but the difference here is that Macs are still better machines in most respects. Macs endure as a niche product because they're higher quality products. Premium Android phones, on the other hand, provide a user experience that a lot of people consider superior.

Some people prefer Windows to Mac OS, too, so I really don't see your point.

Not really sure how I can make this point more simply. In order to survive as a niche product you have to offer a significantly better or at least different experience. I'm sitting here right now in a coworking space in Vietnam full of developers. Ratio of MacBooks to PCs is about 15:1, which is pretty typical for any group of technical people I've been around.

Re: Nokia acquired by Microsoft

#265

Post by cageface »

snom380 wrote: post #251
cageface wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The car analogy gets trotted out over and over again when talking about smart phone market share but it really doesn't work at all. Smart phone ecosystems have powerful network effects that just don't exist for most luxury goods.

Maybe a better example is the PC market, where Apple also has a small market share but huge profits?

Sure. This analogy I can buy and this seems to be where Apple is headed right now.

Re: Nokia acquired by Microsoft

#267

Post by kybernetikos »

Moto7451 wrote: post #240
hippee-lee wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can we not talk about this in terms of war and battle? It is the business of selling consumer electronics, same as it has always been. You do explain your position well but I feel the references to war and battle water it down. No one has been killed in the development of phones. I get that the MBA crowd read the art of war and it's practical knowledge seeped into popular discussion. But the endless reference to war…

If you want to play a fun game, switch "Apple", "Google", "Microsoft", "Samsung", etc with the names of toothpaste and deodorant brands. It pretty much shows these oddly passionate arguments for what they really are: weird tech company zero sum games repackaged as religious wars. So long as any of these companies have appreciable market share and are profitable they're winning. If Apple goes out of business it'll be…

I agree.

I strongly dislike Apples locked down ecosystem and many of their offerings, but there can be no doubting that their success has been great for the industry. It's broken the MS monopoly (which has had beneficial side effects for linux too), encouraged companies to make products that aim for better than the lowest common denominator, brought UX front and center, recreated the small team of developers making software that lots of people can buy dynamic, encouraged the open web, etc.

As long as we have healthy competition for these marketplaces, I don't worry about the future too much.

Re: Nokia acquired by Microsoft

#268

Post by justincormack »

BuddhaSource wrote: post #257
rayiner wrote: post #38

This is a great move. There is no money in being an Android vendor except if you're Samsung and are totally vertically integrated. With Windows Phone, Nokia and Microsoft at least have some hope of carving out a profitable stake in the market. Anecdotally, I'm very impressed with some of the new Lumias. I got a 620 to replace my stolen iPhone, and for $200 unlocked its phenomenal phone. The build quality makes a flag…

Its great, Why do I feel 7.2B is very low? The acquisition includes distribution channels around the world, factories, devices, R&D and softwares including google maps replacement Nokia Here, which in my opinion very good too. When we compare this to a software starup Tumblr with 1.2B this seems very less. I could be wrong and missing something big.

Nokia has lots of debt too, which makes It cheaper

Re: Nokia acquired by Microsoft

#269

Post by jpalomaki »

blinkingled wrote: post #5

So Elop was in fact a Trojan Horse? Wonder what this does to the already strained MSFT vendor relationships. You could now almost guarantee vendors will start to completely dump Windows on ARM and possibly even look for alternatives to Windows x86.

About of month ago there was some complains from Nokia about Microsoft not making progress fast enough with the software [1]. Some other reports also stated that Windows Phone 8.1 was about to be postponed to early 2014. [2]

Both news (if true) were bad for Nokia which was quite dependent on the success of their higher end mobile phones on short term. I believe Nokia was little bit short of cash and their credit ratings are bad. IF Microsoft would have wanted to cause trouble for Nokia to drive down the acquisition price (or maybe even force them to acquisition), this would have been one way to do it.

[1] http://www.theverge.com/2013/7/29/4567046/nokia-frustrated-b... [2] http://www.wpcentral.com/microsoft-testing-windows-phone-81-...

Re: Nokia acquired by Microsoft

#270

Post by shmerl »

leaffig wrote: post #261
shmerl wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Nokia was really starving for money and wanted to monetize their patents, and saw VP8 as a threat. I doubt it. It looked more like an attack on the open web. MS and Apple always didn't like open codecs. They never even implemented them in their browsers and products. Nokia is not part of MPEG-LA, so they aren't really direct competitors codecs wise. So I see no point for Nokia themselves to be such jerks as to attac…

That doesn't make any sense. Microsoft pays more for H.264 licenses than what it gets. Shipping VP8 with Windows will only open them to more patent lawsuits since Google doesn't indemnify VP8 users from patent suits. http://blogs.windows.com/windows/b/bloggingwindows/archive/2... Google will be the least affected by patent trolls with VP8, they only have to pay license fees on Nexus devices, Chromebooks, Motorola dev…

>. Shipping VP8 with Windows will only open them to more patent lawsuits since Google doesn't indemnify VP8 users from patent suits.

That's an empty excuse they used to explain why they didn't ship open codecs. Totally bogus, since MPEG-LA doesn't indemnify anyone from lawsuits of any patent troll either (MS were even sued themselves by Motorola!), yet MS is completely OK with using H.264.

> Except for one big reason, to monetize their patents.

Suddenly now, out of the blue? Nokia are not new to patent litigation. VP8 is not new either. But now MS has a good grip over Nokia. And VP8 is being attacked. Everything points to MS here.

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