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Google is defragging Android

arstechnica.com

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Re: Google is defragging Android

#51

Post by ChuckMcM »

This is an interesting move on Google's part. It is a lot more mature (from the perspective of running a software business) to have this level of control over your destiny. It is also another step away from the engineering driven focus toward the business goals focus. One of the more difficult things to do is have the conversation why something is correct for the business, even if it is an inferior engineering solution. I hope they manage that transition well.

The other part of this story seems to be that if you move to this as your "api" then you can move the underlying OS tech to something else as well. (away from Linux to something perhaps smaller for a budget phone.) Should be easier than it was for Microsoft to move everyone to the WinAPI and off DOS.

Re: Google is defragging Android

#52

Post by shirederby »

icarus127 wrote: post #48
lazerwalker wrote: post #9

It's worth noting how closely Android's apparent path going forward mirror's Apple's strategy with both OS X and iOS: closed end-user components built on top of an open source core. I guess Google's realized that "openness" isn't a meaningful market differentiator for the average consumer.

I'm interested, what is the open source core in OSX and iOS? I was not aware of any. I know they share code with BSD but I didn't think it was to the extent that one could compare Apple's OS relationship with BSD to Android's relationship with Linux.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwin_%28operating_system%29

Re: Google is defragging Android

#53

Post by jaegerpicker »

credo wrote: post #40

>>This is how you beat software fragmentation. This does help defragment Android from a Google (developed) app perspective. However, it doesn't do anything for 3rd-party developers. It doesn't do anything for regular consumers who wish to upgrade their 2.3.3 phones or 4.1 phones to the latest version of Android. So Google has a long way to go before they really defragment Android.

What? It absolutely helps 3rd party app developers. Need a new and better video/gps/network/etc.. api? Right now you stuck depending on a new OS Version. if they start tying api's to play store updates, as they have with things like geolocation/gps functions, they worrying which OS and about fragmentation mostly goes away for 3rd party developers of apps.

Re: Google is defragging Android

#54

Post by BruceIV »

credo wrote: post #40

>>This is how you beat software fragmentation. This does help defragment Android from a Google (developed) app perspective. However, it doesn't do anything for 3rd-party developers. It doesn't do anything for regular consumers who wish to upgrade their 2.3.3 phones or 4.1 phones to the latest version of Android. So Google has a long way to go before they really defragment Android.

I feel like most people aren't version number junkies, and as long as their phone does all (or most) of the same things that neighbour Jones' Nexus phone does they'll be happy.

Re: Google is defragging Android

#55

Post by engrenage »

kailuowang wrote: post #32
engrenage wrote: post #6

Notably, Play services is totally closed. So Google has abandoned the open source part of Android and is now developing the operating system as a completely closed product. Edit: downvotes don't change the truth of the observation. Android is no longer meaningfully open, other than a years old core of basic functions. Just like OSX and Darwin.

There is still one major difference between play service and osx or ios -it is free and can be installed on any compatible devices, so I wouldn't call it "totally" closed at least not as close as iOS.

Darwin is free and can be installed on any compatible devices.

Re: Google is defragging Android

#56

Post by corresation »

engrenage wrote: post #6

Notably, Play services is totally closed. So Google has abandoned the open source part of Android and is now developing the operating system as a completely closed product. Edit: downvotes don't change the truth of the observation. Android is no longer meaningfully open, other than a years old core of basic functions. Just like OSX and Darwin.

Android is no longer meaningfully open, other than a years old core of basic functions.

This is so utterly and complete wrong, and is the sort of ultra-polarized, hysterical comment that does not belong on HN. I suspect that the single and only reason it isn't dim gray is the appeal-to-sympathy "you downvote the truth!" noise that manipulates the weak-willed.

Just to be clear, Google has always had closed source, proprietary Google bits (gmail, maps, etc. Originally they even built these as a big binary blob in the platform image, and it was "fixing fragmentation" when they moved them to separate apps), and the open source Android bits. Everything you heard about Android 4.3 is in the open source bits ("years old core of basic functions" -- what obnoxious, noisy prattle).

Re: Google is defragging Android

#57

Post by leaffig »

elteto wrote: post #16
engrenage wrote: post #6

Notably, Play services is totally closed. So Google has abandoned the open source part of Android and is now developing the operating system as a completely closed product. Edit: downvotes don't change the truth of the observation. Android is no longer meaningfully open, other than a years old core of basic functions. Just like OSX and Darwin.

I don't see the problem here. Play is part of Google's ecosystem, not the Android OS platform. I can download Android's source code, compile it and put it in any device I want (provided I have the technical capability to do so of course). In fact, this is what Android distributions like Cyanogenmod do, and they also provide a binary blob with Google's stuff as an option, if you want to install it. I don't see the rea…

>and they also provide a binary blob with Google's stuff as an option, if you want to install it.

If they're doing that, then that's illegal and committing copyright infringement.

They got a C&D previously from Google for distributing the Google Apps.

http://www.mobileburn.com/news.jsp?Id=7903

Re: Google is defragging Android

#58

Post by unono »

Hackers need to do something about the big companies abusing the app store system. Google, Apple, Amazon are taking far too much fees from independent developers.

- Apple's store especially needs to be killed fast for innovation to thrive, Apple is turning out to be the new Microsoft, Tim Cook should fear the wrath of developers

- and Google needs to be reminded that it's business could swiftly vanish if it isn't pro-developer and pro-consumer, a 30 percent cut for what amounts to hosting a file is way too much.

Re: Google is defragging Android

#59

Post by fphhotchips »

habosa wrote: post #19
fphhotchips wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember when Android was starting to gain popularity (around 1.6 I suppose), one of the key decisions that I really liked was that Google apps would have no more access to the OS than any other apps. There was no preference to Google. This has now all changed. Further, what's to stop other vendors doing this, possibly without users knowledge? How many users will click "allow" on a permissions box that gives the ve…

Where has this changed? Google's apps are still built on top of the SDK. The only real change was the centralization of Google Play Services, but that doesn't change the level of OS access at all and 3rd-party developers can still tap in to these services.

You're technically correct, which is obviously the best kind. However, on lesser kinds of correctness, I would argue that the Google Services type model at least violates the spirit of that decision. IMHO, the ability to silently add permissions is either a violation of the agreement or a vulnerability in the OS. I doubt any app would last long on the Play store if it did that.

Re: Google is defragging Android

#60

Post by woah »

corresation wrote: post #56
engrenage wrote: post #6

Notably, Play services is totally closed. So Google has abandoned the open source part of Android and is now developing the operating system as a completely closed product. Edit: downvotes don't change the truth of the observation. Android is no longer meaningfully open, other than a years old core of basic functions. Just like OSX and Darwin.

Android is no longer meaningfully open, other than a years old core of basic functions. This is so utterly and complete wrong, and is the sort of ultra-polarized, hysterical comment that does not belong on HN. I suspect that the single and only reason it isn't dim gray is the appeal-to-sympathy "you downvote the truth!" noise that manipulates the weak-willed. Just to be clear, Google has always had closed source, pro…

not an expert in this area, so I won't comment on the accuracy of your claims, but your comment is full of ad hominem vitriol. please keep it civil, whether you agree or not. HN is better than this.
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