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Japan's maglev train runs test at over 310 mph (with video)

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Re: Japan's maglev train runs test at over 310 mph (with video)

#51

Post by larsbot »

melling wrote: post #38
larsbot wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the article: The line between Tokyo and Osaka is expected to cost approximately $90 billion and it won't be completed until 2045 I think California's high speed rail project should be cancelled, but big infrastructure projects do cost a lot of money and take a long time, both in Japan and the US.

It's going to be even more expensive in 30-40 years to build a maglev between LA and SF. Much of the cost is in obtaining the land. Wouldn't it be cheaper to build the first train now then turn it into a 320 mph maglev in 40 years?

The cost is going to be high, maybe $100 billion by the time the project is done. Even with the feds helping, that is a huge sum. Are we really going to get the most "bang" for our bucks? How often do people travel between LA and SF anyways? Improve BART, VTA light rail and CalTrain (in the Bay Area), and I suspect it will have a much larger positive impact on the lives of more people.

Re: Japan's maglev train runs test at over 310 mph (with video)

#52

Post by kposehn »

Anechoic wrote: post #46
chiph wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

California will never build their line. They'll soak up the federal money in study after study, and will ultimately decide it's uneconomical. In the meantime, projects like the Southeastern High Speed Rail Corridor¹, which is actually acquiring right of way and straightening rail lines to permit high speed travel, will be starved of funds. ¹ http://www.sehsr.org

California will never build their line. CA HSR authority signed a construction contract with Tutor Perini to start construction in the coming weeks. It's happening. * In the meantime, projects like the Southeastern High Speed Rail Corridor [..] will be starved of funds.* This isn't an either/or situation, we can (and are) doing both.

The section in construction is a line to nowhere that will see no high speed traffic for years, if ever.

The portions that must be worked on first is the crossing of the Tehachapi mountains, as it is the most time consuming portion. Yet instead, they are constructing line in the southern Central Valley.

I agree with the pessimists. Much as I want high speed rail, I doubt it will happen.

Re: Japan's maglev train runs test at over 310 mph (with video)

#53

Post by rustynails77 »

Anechoic wrote: post #23
blackaspen wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even with the fact that planes fly slower now than in the 60s, I'll gladly fly DEN-SFO. I can be finishing dinner in Palo Alto when you're in the Salt Flats.

Unless it's raining/snowing/windy in Denver or SF (or even an unrelated location like Chicago or Boston which might prevent your aircraft from getting to DEN in the first place) in which case you might be sleeping in an airport terminal while masklinn is finishing a late supper in Palo Alto. I write this as someone who has had two cancellations and 6 delays over ten air trips in the past three months.

And what are the stats for delays in mag-lev ecosystems? Given that you know how unreliable flight ecosystems are and can quantify the delays, I'm assuming you have a basis for comparison in making such a confident statement.

Re: Japan's maglev train runs test at over 310 mph (with video)

#54

Post by rorrr2 »

eliben wrote: post #41

The price and time-line estimate make me sad and pessimistic for some reason. 30 years and $90 billion just to pull a fast train line between two cities in Japan? How long and how expensive then will real futuristic projects be, like colonization of other planets, space elevators, fusion reactors and so on?

$90 billion is not a large sum of money, considering the pointless wars in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan costed 3-4 TRILLION dollars. We could've had every major city connected to a maglev network by now if we didn't let politicians spend our tax money on bullshit.

Many space missions NASA designs are quite affordable, and the SpaceX innovations will make them even cheaper.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_cost_of_the_Iraq_War#...

Re: Japan's maglev train runs test at over 310 mph (with video)

#55

Post by Anechoic »

larsbot wrote: post #51
melling wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's going to be even more expensive in 30-40 years to build a maglev between LA and SF. Much of the cost is in obtaining the land. Wouldn't it be cheaper to build the first train now then turn it into a 320 mph maglev in 40 years?

The cost is going to be high, maybe $100 billion by the time the project is done. Even with the feds helping, that is a huge sum. Are we really going to get the most "bang" for our bucks? How often do people travel between LA and SF anyways? Improve BART, VTA light rail and CalTrain (in the Bay Area), and I suspect it will have a much larger positive impact on the lives of more people.

* How often do people travel between LA and SF anyways?*

According to the WSJ, 6 million people per year travel between LA & SF via air every year. I can't find highway numbers, but I gotta believe it's about the same order of magnitude, if not higher.

Improve BART, VTA light rail and CalTrain (in the Bay Area), and I suspect it will have a much larger positive impact on the lives of more people.

All of the above need to be done, both will have a positive impact of even more people.

Re: Japan's maglev train runs test at over 310 mph (with video)

#56

Post by Anechoic »

kposehn wrote: post #52
Anechoic wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

California will never build their line. CA HSR authority signed a construction contract with Tutor Perini to start construction in the coming weeks. It's happening. * In the meantime, projects like the Southeastern High Speed Rail Corridor [..] will be starved of funds.* This isn't an either/or situation, we can (and are) doing both.

The section in construction is a line to nowhere that will see no high speed traffic for years, if ever. The portions that must be worked on first is the crossing of the Tehachapi mountains, as it is the most time consuming portion. Yet instead, they are constructing line in the southern Central Valley. I agree with the pessimists. Much as I want high speed rail, I doubt it will happen.

The section they are construction is a section that a) will need to be built anyway, and b) be used as a test section to iron out the inevitable kinks that will pop up. The logic is that if a project is going to run into problems (which any large project, including this one, will) you may as well do the easier part first to make the later harder parts go more smoothly.

Re: Japan's maglev train runs test at over 310 mph (with video)

#57

Post by vedant »

Patrick_Devine wrote: post #39
tgb wrote: post #31

Why are maglevs so much slower than airplanes? We're looking at a factor of 2 difference and airports don't take over 30 years to install. Isn't the point of a maglev to reduce the friction against the ground, so aren't both planes and maglevs fighting primarily against air resistance? Or is it not that they can't go faster, just that it's too loud or they need to turn too much or something?

Air density on the ground. Air is a lot soupier close to the surface in the troposphere vs way up high in the stratosphere.

Most commercial flights are actually in the troposphere, which is about 17km deep in the temperate zone. Your point is still right: air density at 36000ft is ~0.37 kg/m^3, as opposed to 1.23 kg/m^3 at sea level.

Re: Japan's maglev train runs test at over 310 mph (with video)

#58

Post by ekianjo »

larsbot wrote: post #29
rsync wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

310 mph in 2013. As opposed to 220 mph top speed in the year 2029 for california "high speed" rail. What a bright, wondrous future we will all be living in!

From the article: The line between Tokyo and Osaka is expected to cost approximately $90 billion and it won't be completed until 2045 I think California's high speed rail project should be cancelled, but big infrastructure projects do cost a lot of money and take a long time, both in Japan and the US.

That's precisely why these kind of high speed trains have no future. They cost way too much in infrastructure.

Re: Japan's maglev train runs test at over 310 mph (with video)

#59

Post by kposehn »

Anechoic wrote: post #56
kposehn wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The section in construction is a line to nowhere that will see no high speed traffic for years, if ever. The portions that must be worked on first is the crossing of the Tehachapi mountains, as it is the most time consuming portion. Yet instead, they are constructing line in the southern Central Valley. I agree with the pessimists. Much as I want high speed rail, I doubt it will happen.

The section they are construction is a section that a) will need to be built anyway, and b) be used as a test section to iron out the inevitable kinks that will pop up. The logic is that if a project is going to run into problems (which any large project, including this one, will) you may as well do the easier part first to make the later harder parts go more smoothly.

It would be logical to do that if it were a section that would see some measure if high speed use.

The section which would see that would be from Martinez to Davis. That segment sees many capital corridor trains daily and would immediately benefit from high speed service. What they are working on now sees a small fraction of the ridership, iirc.

Re: Japan's maglev train runs test at over 310 mph (with video)

#60

Post by jpatokal »

mrb wrote: post #48

The article does not mention it, but 310 mph is still below previous maglev's speed records, done 10-15 years ago(!) on the same test line: 361.0 mph in December 2003 343.0 mph in April 1999 329.9 mph in December 1997 See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCMaglev#Manned_records

It's one thing to set test records with test equipment, and another to set them with production equipment -- this model is the actual train they're going to run on the line. Kind of like how the Bell X-1 was the first supersonic aircraft, but the Concorde was the first commercial supersonic aircraft.

(And I have a sneaky suspicion that Japan's maglev, running in a depopulating country with economy in a terminal downward spiral, will end up as marginal and unprofitable as the Concorde, but that's another story.)

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