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The NSA's crypto "breakthrough"

economist.com

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Re: The NSA's crypto "breakthrough"

#11

Post by derefr »

sillysaurus2 wrote: post #8
devx wrote: post #2

Sounds like we need a couple more Snowden's to come out from NSA.

Why? Because the government doesn't deserve to have any secret programs whatsoever? I've said it before and I'll say it again: Even if leaking XKeyscore and PRISM was morally justified, leaking the intelligence budget or leaking other programs is probably unwise. Remember that when we talk about leaking, we're talking about weakening the American government. We should at least think about the implications.

I imagine these arguments usually come from a perspective that the US should be as weak as it would be with all its cards on the table; possibly coupled with the idea that if we're spending $500b/yr on defense, going down a few rungs on the power ladder still leaves us above everyone else. It's a very populist idea--that we can trade tactical power (the kind you get from having secrets) for strategic power (the kind you get, supposedly, by having the average voter participating in the decision-making process.) Let alone that the military isn't under congress...

Re: The NSA's crypto "breakthrough"

#12

Post by sdevlin »

derefr wrote: post #5

One of the "nice" things about the NSA: they rely on pretty standard crypto--the same kind the rest of us do!--for their less sensitive, but still classified, secrets. NSA Ciphersuite B ( http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSA_Suite_B_Cryptography ) is built into a lot of gov/mil communications technology. And it's just RSA, ECDHE, and so on--all that same stuff available in TLS. In other words: if the NSA break one of t…

Suite B does not contain RSA.

EDIT: To your latter point, some people would consider this to be a telling fact.

Re: The NSA's crypto "breakthrough"

#13

Post by ianstallings »

devx wrote: post #2

Sounds like we need a couple more Snowden's to come out from NSA.

Chances are, if this system exists it will be accessible by only a very small number of people and kept a secret from the others with obfuscation and compartmentalization. So we'd need a very specific leaker out of a small group of people. It would be akin to hoping we'll see the secrets of the "nuclear football".

Now one day over-the-counter quantum computers will probably become a reality. In that age we'll see more information on it because the secret will be no secret at all.

Re: The NSA's crypto "breakthrough"

#14

Post by reinmen »

derefr wrote: post #5

One of the "nice" things about the NSA: they rely on pretty standard crypto--the same kind the rest of us do!--for their less sensitive, but still classified, secrets. NSA Ciphersuite B ( http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSA_Suite_B_Cryptography ) is built into a lot of gov/mil communications technology. And it's just RSA, ECDHE, and so on--all that same stuff available in TLS. In other words: if the NSA break one of t…

as far as i understand it, ciphertext is indistinguishable from random text. and, afaik, this is true of all modern algos. so, how do you notice they switched? you don't.

you only notice once they call upon the more public parts of gov to switch to another 'secure' algo. also, NSA themselves probably use the Suite A algos that we know batshit about.

but, reality check: THIS IS ALL SPECULATION. there is no evidence that they have broken anything.

Re: The NSA's crypto "breakthrough"

#15

Post by seiji »

s_q_b wrote: post #3

The Economist: > Does the NSA have a quantum computer in the basement of its headquarters in Maryland (pictured above)? It is theoretically possible, but pretty unlikely... A Canadian firm called D-Wave is presently selling a specialised kind of quantum computer—Lockheed Martin, an American defence giant, and Google have each bought one—but it is not suitable for this kind of work. In-Q-Tel - "About Us" > "We make in…

The most advanced math a quantum computer has done to date is "factored 21 into 3×7, with high probability (Martín-López et al. 2012)."

Remember: companies are in the game of marketing hype to ride your scifi hopes and dreams. When you see a company saying "quantum" anything, discount their unqualified claims greatly. (Investors are not immune to being manipulated by hype. Claiming "they must be good because they have fancy investors!" provides no more weight to their ability than a hobo claiming he keeps the airplane aloft by snapping his fingers every 3.2 seconds.)

Re: The NSA's crypto "breakthrough"

#19

Post by sneak »

sdevlin wrote: post #12
derefr wrote: post #5

One of the "nice" things about the NSA: they rely on pretty standard crypto--the same kind the rest of us do!--for their less sensitive, but still classified, secrets. NSA Ciphersuite B ( http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSA_Suite_B_Cryptography ) is built into a lot of gov/mil communications technology. And it's just RSA, ECDHE, and so on--all that same stuff available in TLS. In other words: if the NSA break one of t…

Suite B does not contain RSA. EDIT: To your latter point, some people would consider this to be a telling fact.

Or non-EC DH, either. (It does include ECDH.)

Perhaps they were simply anticipating DLP progress and wanted to be future-proof?

Re: The NSA's crypto "breakthrough"

#20

Post by frank_boyd »

lazyjones wrote: post #4

Somewhat misleading title. No answers, just more questions on the topic.

Well, that's important to keep in mind:

There are no answers and there will never be, b/c:

We can never trust/accept any statements from any government, except for admissions of guilt.

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