I wonder if using a screen reader for the blind, with the language set to English, would help non-native speakers learn pronunciation. For example, use VoiceOver on OS X (enabled by pressing Command+F5) to read blogs, HN, etc.
English has been my pain for 15 years
121–130 of 308 posts
Re: English has been my pain for 15 years
#122Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Sounds like a simple program to write, probably it already exists. It does and is called Anki. You'll probably need to search a bit though to find a deck that has italian/english with english sounds: https://ankiweb.net/shared/decks/english Alternatively you could take decks made for other languages and build a new deck, since they're all stored in SQLite.
Thanks! I don't need an italian -> english one, just english with sounds will be enough.
I'm using Anki to teach reading/writing English to my kids. Anki is also a great way to learn a programming language or API (see: https://sivers.org/srs).
Re: English has been my pain for 15 years
#123English isn't just the language of IT, it's become the lingua franca of science and commerce. Very little research worth reading is published in a language other than English these days. I wouldn't be surprised if there are obscure, third-rate English-language scientific journals in China that have never been seen, let alone had articles submitted to by native English speakers! Over the years, I've worked with a lot…
Cockney is relatively easy compared to some other local UK dialects/accents. My wife's family is from Stirlingshire in Scotland and they say stuff like: 'yer wain's greetin' -> 'the baby's crying'. 'I'm away tae get woor messages' -> 'I'm going to the shops for food' It took my a while before I could understand them :-)
In those examples, it's not just the accent or the words / language used, it's local expressions, sayings and the like. A perfectly simple and easily read sentence like "I need to see a man about a dog" can be pronounced in the most fluent and understandable accent (TV English), and still non-natives wouldn't realise it means you're going to the bathroom. In fact, going to the bathroom is another expression / figure of speech. You get the idea.
Words, grammar and pronunciation are just part of the story.
Re: English has been my pain for 15 years
#124Last time I expressed my thoughts[1] here about the same thing I was brutally word-raped by the angriest people on earth, now everyone is saying what I was saying all along and it's all well and good. You need to know English: put in the effort, watch a shitload of movies and read even more books. That's it, you can't just ignore it. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6239371
> You need to know English No, you really don't. You only need to know English if you're selling to English speaking people. You'll probably need to learn English for a number of professions. But apart from that you can live and work perfectly well without using English at all. English isn't the main language on the Internet any more, it is just one of them. The fact that you happen to think that English is the major…
It's not about the language of the internet, it's about the language in which the most influential books and papers are written. If you can't read ACM papers or IEEE specifications you're at a disadvantage whether or not you're selling to English speakers. If I were to build a car and the best resources were written in Japanese I'd be at a disadvantage even if I was working for, say, a Swedish outfit.
Since most researchers relocate in the states and subsequently publish their findings in English there's no doubt that the best sources of knowledge are written in English.
Re: English has been my pain for 15 years
#125Last time I expressed my thoughts[1] here about the same thing I was brutally word-raped by the angriest people on earth, now everyone is saying what I was saying all along and it's all well and good. You need to know English: put in the effort, watch a shitload of movies and read even more books. That's it, you can't just ignore it. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6239371
You should have tried expressing your thoughts while being Paul Graham.
Yeah, maybe :P
Re: English has been my pain for 15 years
#126Earlier quoted context omitted.
So a 12 year old in Brazil not only has to learn how to install an OS, and then how to install Python, and then how to program with Python, but also has to do all of that in a different language? Pretty easy to call it an essential skill when English is your first language. How about you try to pick up some new programming language using only Japanese documentation?
The parent comment wasn't prescriptive, it was descriptive. You can argue all you'd like that it isn't fair or optimal or good, but you're hard pressed to argue that it isn't true.
> but you're hard pressed to argue that it isn't true.
But it's only true (if it is true, and I haven't seen anything to show that it is) because it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. There's nothing about it that needs it to be true.
"The world needs a common language; you lazy thickos need to speak English (which, coincidentally, is what I speak) otherwise you only have yourselves to blame" is the language of fascists and belongs to the era of Eugenics and other hateful wrong-headed ideologies.
Re: English has been my pain for 15 years
#127I have a French colleague with the strangest attitude to his strong accent when speaking English. His accent is strong enough that it makes understanding him a bit tricky sometimes, and when I mentioned it, he said that this accent was part of his identity and he wouldn't be trying to improve it. He was weirdly taken aback when I said something in a 'good' French accent. This attitude was really surprising to me. For…
I really don't want to support stereotypes, but my girlfriend works on the bus station and in her experience of more than 2 years the french are the toughest customers to deal with. They refuse to learn even a handful of basic english expressions. She also tries german or spanish, although she is not exactly fluent in either. So most of the time, they speak french to her and she responds in croatian, waiting for them to give up.
Re: English has been my pain for 15 years
#128Earlier quoted context omitted.
The parent comment wasn't prescriptive, it was descriptive. You can argue all you'd like that it isn't fair or optimal or good, but you're hard pressed to argue that it isn't true.
> but you're hard pressed to argue that it isn't true. But it's only true (if it is true, and I haven't seen anything to show that it is) because it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. There's nothing about it that needs it to be true. "The world needs a common language; you lazy thickos need to speak English (which, coincidentally, is what I speak) otherwise you only have yourselves to blame" is the language of fascists a…
Like I just said, the comment was descriptive, not prescriptive. Neither that commenter nor I are arguing that this is how it should be. We're simply observing that it's how it is, and if you want to be successful it's almost always better to base your decisions on how the world is than on how you think it should be.
As for anything to show that it is true… have you looked around you? English has very obviously become the lingua franca of commerce, science, and technology. This is not a controversial statement.
Re: English has been my pain for 15 years
#129Earlier quoted context omitted.
The problem is not being willing to learn an essential skill.
So a 12 year old in Brazil not only has to learn how to install an OS, and then how to install Python, and then how to program with Python, but also has to do all of that in a different language? Pretty easy to call it an essential skill when English is your first language. How about you try to pick up some new programming language using only Japanese documentation?
If I had to I would. In fact, just like the author, I was born and raised in Italy. I'm not a native English speaker but since the circumstances required it I learned the English language, simple as that. Now I get to read college textbooks in English instead of relying on the botched translations, I watch movies in their original language instead of watching the translated version and missing half the jokes.
Re: English has been my pain for 15 years
#130Earlier quoted context omitted.
No, not really. I have the same opinion and I'm not a native English speaker. English has some good properties for a common language: - It has a simple grammar - It is spoken by the entertaining media - It already has a head start Now, if they could actually fix the major flaws: - Spelling is absurd. It's not just bad, it is absurd. - For foreigners, the UK accents are terrible. It took me a couple of days in London…
bend, send, spend, friend. Rough - 'ruff' Cough - 'coff' Bough - 'bow' Though - 'tho' Through - 'throo' hiccough - 'hiccup' Bought - 'bawt'
I'm still waiting for HN member ghotifish to show up, as his name is pronounced fish fish:
gh as in cough
o as in women
ti as in nation