Why knowing English is important for every software developer • Hacker News Board

Re: Why knowing English is important for every software developer

#31

Post by bdcravens » Mon, Sep 02, 2013, 7:55 AM UTC

Ignorant American here, asking of the non-native English speakers:

As most (every?) programming language is "in English", does this impair understanding? (for, in, throw, select, from - all English words whose meanings are more or less in line with the programming concept they define) (Even Ruby, created by a Japanese, is "English")

For those who write/type in languages that require Unicode: since you typically code in ASCII, was this a challenge to learn? (do modern languages support Unicode for things like variable names? I've never seen Hebrew, Chinese, etc code - does anyone have any examples?)

Re: Why knowing English is important for every software developer

#32

Post by jballanc » Mon, Sep 02, 2013, 7:57 AM UTC

I've often said that English is to programming as Latin is to medicine. Programmers will be writing "if" statements and "for" loops long after no one uses "if" or "for" in daily conversation.

So it is as important for programmers to understand English as it is for doctors to understand Latin. Of course, most doctors may understand Latin, but they wouldn't be able to converse in Latin. In that sense, English is also the programmer's lingua franca.

That term -- lingua franca -- is an interesting one. In addition to being used as a colloquialism for "a common language" it was also, itself, a language: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediterranean_Lingua_Franca . Just as Lingua Franca eventually took on a life (and grammar and vocabulary) of its own, I expect "hacker English" will, over time, do the same. In fact already my (English-speaking) wife thinks that I'm speaking a foreign language half the time when I'm talking with colleagues over Skype.

It's less important to know "English", and much more important to speak, converse, and communicate with other hackers using the lingua franca of the day.

Re: Why knowing English is important for every software developer

#33

Post by parasight » Mon, Sep 02, 2013, 7:58 AM UTC

k__ wrote: post #26

neebz wrote: post #16

I cannot tell you how much I agree with this. When someone in US says good communication skills are important, they think it's racist. I am from Pakistan. When I tell colleagues to master English, they think I am still mentally under British imperialism. There is a huge trove of knowledge on the internet which you can only benefit from if you can read/write English. It was only after I focused on my English that I wa…

You're so right. Here in Germany are many people who don't want to speak english, even if they had it at school for 13 years... But if I wouldn't speak english, I had to read german news only or couldn't use stackoverflow. 90% of the newest technology would be useless for me, because I couldn't read any documentations or tutorials.

There is a difference between reading and speaking English.

While my spoken english isn't very good I'm able to read advanced technical books, manuals, news, and other texts without any problems.

I rarely have the opportunity to speak english. That's the problem.

Re: Why knowing English is important for every software developer

#34

Post by Hellion » Mon, Sep 02, 2013, 7:59 AM UTC

bdcravens wrote: post #31

Ignorant American here, asking of the non-native English speakers: As most (every?) programming language is "in English", does this impair understanding? (for, in, throw, select, from - all English words whose meanings are more or less in line with the programming concept they define) (Even Ruby, created by a Japanese, is "English") For those who write/type in languages that require Unicode: since you typically code…

I know that many programming languages (for example C), have long had tokenizers that are non-English. So the language is the same, the words are different.

Re: Why knowing English is important for every software developer

#35

Post by volpav » Mon, Sep 02, 2013, 8:00 AM UTC

bdcravens wrote: post #31

Ignorant American here, asking of the non-native English speakers: As most (every?) programming language is "in English", does this impair understanding? (for, in, throw, select, from - all English words whose meanings are more or less in line with the programming concept they define) (Even Ruby, created by a Japanese, is "English") For those who write/type in languages that require Unicode: since you typically code…

When I was learning Basic in school, I wasn't really caring/realizing that all of the keywords can actually be translated to Russian, I was just learning them by heart like proper nouns. On the other hand, seeing languages with syntax in Russian (like the scripting language in 1C CRM) always makes me smile ("so ugly, unusual and funny").

Re: Why knowing English is important for every software developer

#36

Post by clu3 » Mon, Sep 02, 2013, 8:01 AM UTC

Cant agree more. These days, I lead and train a dev team here at codersquare in Vietnam. For recruitment, English skills, esp reaing + writing are weighed as much as technical skills. And I provide English lessons on a regular basis as well.

Can't really emphasize enough the importance of English in software. I've had bad experience with devs with weak English skills.

1. Can't google for the right terms so normally finding a solution takes 3 times longer than a dev with proficient E skills. 2. Can't name functions/classes or comment properly thus producing bad qualiry code. 3. Misunderstand requirements sometimes. This one can be very costly. 4. Takes much longer time to study new stuff.

2cents

Re: Why knowing English is important for every software developer

#37

Post by vacri » Mon, Sep 02, 2013, 8:02 AM UTC

k__ wrote: post #26

neebz wrote: post #16

I cannot tell you how much I agree with this. When someone in US says good communication skills are important, they think it's racist. I am from Pakistan. When I tell colleagues to master English, they think I am still mentally under British imperialism. There is a huge trove of knowledge on the internet which you can only benefit from if you can read/write English. It was only after I focused on my English that I wa…

You're so right. Here in Germany are many people who don't want to speak english, even if they had it at school for 13 years... But if I wouldn't speak english, I had to read german news only or couldn't use stackoverflow. 90% of the newest technology would be useless for me, because I couldn't read any documentations or tutorials.

I vaguely remember Linux Torvalds saying he developed linux in English, and it didn't really occur to him to develop it in Finnish, since English is a better language for dealing with technical issues.

From my (potentially quite flawed) understanding, English, French, and German are all good languages for capturing technical concepts, but English won out in general, simply because it's much bigger - more native speakers (thanks USA) and more widely spread (thanks British colonialism).

Re: Why knowing English is important for every software developer

#38

Post by barking » Mon, Sep 02, 2013, 8:02 AM UTC

bdcravens wrote: post #31

Ignorant American here, asking of the non-native English speakers: As most (every?) programming language is "in English", does this impair understanding? (for, in, throw, select, from - all English words whose meanings are more or less in line with the programming concept they define) (Even Ruby, created by a Japanese, is "English") For those who write/type in languages that require Unicode: since you typically code…

I'm taking this as a very tenous opportunity to quote a scene from The Simpsons where the country bumpkin character says:

"I only speak good ol' american, if it's good enough for Jesus it's good enough for me"

Re: Why knowing English is important for every software developer

#39

Post by jeena » Mon, Sep 02, 2013, 8:08 AM UTC

lgbr wrote: post #7

Knowing English is important for every startup, let alone every software developer. 1. Outside of English-speaking countries, and particularly in the Schengen area, teams are made up of people whose first language isn't the local language. This means that all internal communication happens in English. Companies that make an effort to operate in English internally have a much, much easier time hiring. 2. Investment of…

About 1. it is so true. When I was the first developer at a startup in Stockholm I told my boss that we should really do all the documentation in English and only talk Swedish on the phone or in personal email. When starting we've only been me (from Germany) and two swedes, my boss and the guy with the money.

The first person we hired (that is besides me) was a Spaniard who didn't speak Swedish. The second was also Spanish and didn't speak Swedish either. The third was from Ukraina, she spoke Swedish quite ok already. And this went on in this direction, Norwegians, Greeks, more Spaniards, etc.

So our decision to go English all the way made hiring much much easier from the beginning and now English became the language half of the staff is communicating in even if you meet them in person.

Re: Why knowing English is important for every software developer

#40

Post by vacri » Mon, Sep 02, 2013, 8:08 AM UTC

lutusp wrote: post #8

mintplant wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's wrong with "who're"?

It's an uncommon contraction, also at first glance, it reads like another word, one that refers to someone who offers professional sexual services.

Uncommon, sure, but still correct. Myself, I like "who'd've" and similar. Never seen in written English, but quite common in spoken English. Who'd've thought you could put two apostrophes in the one contraction? :)