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Why a medieval peasant got more vacation time than you

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Re: Why a medieval peasant got more vacation time than you

#71

Post by Fingel »

alexeisadeski3 wrote: post #23
netcan wrote: post #11

This comparison is probably nonsensical. Still, I think the part of the zeitgeist it's coming from is interesting. No matter how rich we get as a society, very little of that wealth seems to be expressed as more leisure time. This is true comparing different decades (We got richer, still work lots) and its true comparing professions/socio economic classes (highly paid engineers & lawyers work just as much as call cen…

It is a personal decision though, right? Some choose more leisure and others don't. Go talk to some ski "bums" or surf "bums" to see what I mean

Bike bum here writing from Whister, B.C. Work 20ish hours a week for Silicon Valley startups remotely and still manage to actually save money simply by not living in the Bay Area. I have a ridiculous amount of leisure time and relocate whenever I feel like it. I know this isn't possible for most people, but I wonder why more of my peers (and those on HN) don't choose a similar lifestyle.

Re: Why a medieval peasant got more vacation time than you

#72

Post by makomk »

smsm42 wrote: post #65

You could easily afford same vacation time - work only half a year, consume at the level of medieval peasant (no TV, no internet, no modern medicine, no car, no fancy foods or clothes, one clothes change a decade, no electricity, no running water, no sanitation/WC) - and you'll have plenty of money left to live the dream second half of the year. I'm sure if you forgo the modern civilization, you can get through prett…

Of course, with no running water and sanitation, one clothes change in a decade, no car, and no internet connection or electricity you might be hard pushed to find and hold a job for even half a year in the modern era.

Re: Why a medieval peasant got more vacation time than you

#73

Post by Fingel »

guelo wrote: post #28
alexeisadeski3 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a personal decision though, right? Some choose more leisure and others don't. Go talk to some ski "bums" or surf "bums" to see what I mean

"Ski bum" is not an option for people that want to have economic security and maybe buy a mortgage and raise a family.

A bum is simply someone who has realized they love something in life more than money, and is immune to the FUD of "economic security" - it's not hard to get by with a little intelligence and resourcefulness. These same people (from my experience) tend to be the best parents simply because they can switch from spending their leisure time from to child.

Re: Why a medieval peasant got more vacation time than you

#74

Post by venomsnake »

aznjons wrote: post #29
FD3SA wrote: post #8

This is simply a result of the balance of power shifting ever further towards employers over the past few decades. What incentives does a short-term value maximizing employer have to give his employees paid vacation? In addition, a perfect storm of automation, globalization and erosion of worker rights has severely reduced the bargaining position of employees worldwide. Furthermore, by keeping the majority of the pop…

Well put, the relationship trends more and more asymmetric. Add in rhetoric designed to convince workers to buy into a system that exploits them: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6240495 In general, employers have far more leverage over employee's lives than the individual employee has over the corporation's well being even though we sometimes pretend that it is symmetric and that the market is fair. Employers op…

Which creates a fertile ground for Marxism 2.0 . The moment the screws tighten even more and instead of middle class you get technical/service class for the elite you will have a lot of unhappy people to deal with.

And as history has shown time and time again when you have a lot of poor and unhappy people new ideologies could spread like fire.

Another thing that concentration of wealth brings is that when the chant becomes "eat the rich/powerful" there are very few rich people left to mount a solid defense - the Arab Spring, the Fall of the Berlin wall all showed that.

(I mix political/military/economic power because I think in electroweak style theory they are all the same - the ability to mess up with other people's lives)

Re: Why a medieval peasant got more vacation time than you

#75

Post by Buzaga »

smsm42 wrote: post #65

You could easily afford same vacation time - work only half a year, consume at the level of medieval peasant (no TV, no internet, no modern medicine, no car, no fancy foods or clothes, one clothes change a decade, no electricity, no running water, no sanitation/WC) - and you'll have plenty of money left to live the dream second half of the year. I'm sure if you forgo the modern civilization, you can get through prett…

and what a great civilization!

Anyway... I think this analysis is shortsighted, for a start, you can't forgo the modern civilization because you can't have a home and you can't leave it, and if you're in it, there's a cost... And it's understood that the right to have somewhere to live is essential but you can't leave the city and get to a piece of land, land is not produced anymore and it belongs to the rich, you can't buy it, you can't raise cattle or chicken and you can't plant, so, you'll die.

And then everything else comes after this. Also, lets be honest, the level of education you need to even start pondering this you can't get either, because by then you'd already have had to have eaten and lived somewhere, and maybe you have bills and you can be arrested.. Not such a viable option. Then it's also probably a big fallacy that people can really live off of welfare policy goods, I don't know how it is in the USA, but here in Brazil I'm pretty sure what you get is barely enough for you not to live like a wild animal in middle of 'modern civilization'

Re: Why a medieval peasant got more vacation time than you

#76

Post by gbog »

"His diet and personal hygiene left much to be desired."

Does it means these poor people that happen to be our ancestors had a faint body odor surrounding them? Can we stop with this crasiness? We are animals, animals have "body odor", and it have been considered a good thing for a long time.

Every time I hear about personal hygiene I remember this American girl who was learning Chinese with me in a university in south China. She was there on the behalf a sort of NGO and her goal was to "teach Chinese personal hygiene". She was talking about "spreading the use of perfume and deodorant" and such things.

So now we have no more colonization, but we still have missionaries, and hygiene missionaries. And they still do harm.

(Because yes, abuse of perfumes and deodorant IS harmful in many respects)

So, to come back OT, it is ok to wonder if middle-age peasants had more free time, and if their life was pleasant (I guess it was not), but please let our own crasiness out of the discussion.

We are the anti body age, anti-body hair, anti-body odor, shaved-porn-age (which is anti-sex), etc. We have our crasiness too. It is very optimistic to believe we are less crasy than the Middle-Age. And God knows Middle-Age was crasy...

Re: Why a medieval peasant got more vacation time than you

#77

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

Fingel wrote: post #71
alexeisadeski3 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a personal decision though, right? Some choose more leisure and others don't. Go talk to some ski "bums" or surf "bums" to see what I mean

Bike bum here writing from Whister, B.C. Work 20ish hours a week for Silicon Valley startups remotely and still manage to actually save money simply by not living in the Bay Area. I have a ridiculous amount of leisure time and relocate whenever I feel like it. I know this isn't possible for most people, but I wonder why more of my peers (and those on HN) don't choose a similar lifestyle.

I've worked for an ISP in NetOps Security and Infrastructure, in this position I assisted in on-the-ground project management of a new high power density addition to an existing co-location date centre, along with being responsible for the day to day running and maintenance scheduling, deployed and managed 55 security cameras across three states including some underlying network.

I've worked in a call centre doing Level 1 tech support for retail customers, Level 2 support (escalations), and Faults & Provisioning of DSL & Telephony services.

I am a welder by trade, I hold a Certificate III in Engineering & Heavy Fabrication, I can weld stainless steel, steel, and aluminium, from light gauge sheet metal to heavy wall pipe, structural steel, I've work on construction 60' fishing boats and 8' aluminium recreational fishing boats.

I have a Diploma in Western Herbal Medicine and a Certificate IV in Allied and Complimentary Healthcare, I've studied, in detail, around 220 herbal medicines (some of which has peer reviewed efficacy studies, others clinically proven, others are tradition), including growing and producing my own liquid extracts.

I currently work 22ish hours a week as a carer / personal attendant to two physically disabled guys. My skill set is unique and I'm highly employable.

Working full time is not all it's cracked up to be. I've done lots of it. I've had three six month 'travelling holidays', four years of part time or full time study with part time or full time work. I've had all sorts of mixes of work / study / holiday / travelling.

It'd be worth noting the context my life has happened in: I live in Australia, we have social security / unemployment benefits (yes, there are "benefits" to being unemployed), and free healthcare.

Edited for coherence.

Re: Why a medieval peasant got more vacation time than you

#78

Post by smsm42 »

makomk wrote: post #72
smsm42 wrote: post #65

You could easily afford same vacation time - work only half a year, consume at the level of medieval peasant (no TV, no internet, no modern medicine, no car, no fancy foods or clothes, one clothes change a decade, no electricity, no running water, no sanitation/WC) - and you'll have plenty of money left to live the dream second half of the year. I'm sure if you forgo the modern civilization, you can get through prett…

Of course, with no running water and sanitation, one clothes change in a decade, no car, and no internet connection or electricity you might be hard pushed to find and hold a job for even half a year in the modern era.

Why, I'm sure there are some jobs in agriculture always available, and nobody cares how you smell when you're in the fields. There are probably other options too. But there's always 100% vacation options, many people are using it right now.

Re: Why a medieval peasant got more vacation time than you

#79

Post by ef4 »

gbog wrote: post #76

"His diet and personal hygiene left much to be desired." Does it means these poor people that happen to be our ancestors had a faint body odor surrounding them? Can we stop with this crasiness? We are animals, animals have "body odor", and it have been considered a good thing for a long time. Every time I hear about personal hygiene I remember this American girl who was learning Chinese with me in a university in sou…

Only someone living in the relative safety of a hygienic society would assume the point of that statement is smell.

Medieval peasants died from their lack of hygiene.

Re: Why a medieval peasant got more vacation time than you

#80

Post by smsm42 »

pandaman wrote: post #68
googleitdude wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_labor_in_the_Soviet_Unio...

This what I said, peasants were forced to work in agriculture. They were not forced to work in factories, quite the opposite, they had been prevented from working in factories or anywhere else.

First of all, there was a big Gulag-supplied industry (google White Sea – Baltic Canal, also known as Belomorkanal, not to be confused with popular - in the USSR - brand of cigarettes). Second, even outside of Gulag, you couldn't just choose what you'd be doing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parasitism_(social_offense) If you're not engaging in "socially productive" work, you're going to be relocated to unhospitable areas in the north or in Siberia.
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