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How Poverty Taxes the Brain

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Re: How Poverty Taxes the Brain

#111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We all have our addictions. Being automatically prejudiced against one that happens to shorten your life isn't as useful as realizing you may be addicted to something far worse, e.g. spending most of your time thinking about dating or worrying how to shape yourself to fit the die that some institution has cast for your life, like college or work.

To be honest, I don't think these are worse than smoking at all. They sound more like phases in a normal person's life.

Take the idea of evolution. As pg points out in his essay, the reason evolution was so difficult for people to accept is that species seem to be unchanging, static fixtures. It would be absurd to suggest that a dolphin used to walk around on land, yet evidence shows that they did, a couple million years ago.

It turns out that the idea of evolution is useful in other contexts. Most of the best software was written by following a procedure strikingly similar to how a creature evolves. The idea of "release early, release often" is the idea of evolution applied to the process of writing software. In fact, this idea is so valuable that we probably wouldn't be having this conversation without it, because neither Viaweb nor Arc nor YC would exist.

It was normal for society to be unaware of evolution the same way we're unaware of the spin of the Earth. And when people started to look at the evidence, it was normal for society to reject it. It wasn't until Darwin, an established scientist near the end of his life, that society allowed the idea to take hold.

The consequence is that those who live a life that society lays out for them are almost universally denied access to the best ideas, because the best ideas are the ones you haven't thought of yet.

It's tempting to believe that you're resistant to the effects of society laying out a normal path for you to follow. Aren't we free to think whatever we want? After all, no one can prevent us from thinking, right? Actually, that's exactly what happens. "Here is where you live. Here is where you play. Here is where you learn. Here is where you work. These are the hours you may relax." That cycle is too powerful to resist unless you actively try to break it. It stamps its seal onto your brain. For 16 hours a day, your thoughts are not your own -- they are owned by whomever pays you. The reason is because even though you are technically free to think whatever you want whenever you want, most people never do. At work, people think about work, or about coworkers. At school, you think about school or (more commonly) about other students.

That sounds quite a lot like an addiction. In the same way a drug user becomes obsessed with acquiring their fix, most people are obsessed with living whatever life society tells them to be living. And in practice that means most people are limiting themselves to a small fraction of their potential, because your potential stems from your ideas, and your ideas come from your thoughts, and your thoughts are mostly not your own.

I believe those addictions are the real ones to be avoided. And avoiding smoking is good while you're at it, but probably doesn't matter as much.

Re: How Poverty Taxes the Brain

#112
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Easier doesn't mean better. You learned risk aversion and prioritization skills from your mothers habits. The fact is that you don't need to employ that aversion at the moment, but its a tool you have if you do need it. The number of people I see who blow though heroic gobs of money astonishes me sometimes. I realize that my metric is entirely variable, but I'm talking about paying 2-3x for a similar good simply beca…

There are a lot of people out there who make a ton of money and still stuggle financially. For some people, income is like RAM or CPU power: whatever you upgrade to, you'll fill it all up soon. I also play little games in the store with trying to find deals and such, even though I don't need to. It's far better than the other way around. Certainly there's a middle ground, but it seems to be really hard to hit.

This is true. I think that past a certain level, though, you don't get the real poverty experience. You get stress, but it's a different sort of stress. Like, yes, you might be having some trouble with your mortgage month-to-month, but selling the yacht is always an option. They don't have to work out exactly how far into starvation they'll have to get to make ends meet this month.

Re: How Poverty Taxes the Brain

#114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, careful with using that ramen as a currency unit. It sure is cheap, but it's the kind of food that will mess up your health long-term.

This is a weird statement: I ate at a ramen restaurant a couple of nights ago. It was quite healthy, I think I had pork, egg, spinach and seaweed in mine. There are plenty of good ramen restaurants branded from Japan. It is not the best food, but it is not the worst food either.

In context, I think ramen should be read as "only ramen".

Re: How Poverty Taxes the Brain

#115
post #7

>>low-income people who were primed to think about financial problems performed poorly on a series of cognition tests Wouldn't highly busy people with a lot of stuff to worry about such as startup entrepreneurs, chief level executives also perform poorly on cognition tests? Doesn't that prove that when your mind is busy at any level of Maslow pyramid, cognition tests and other games become trivia to ignore? So IMO, t…

One (admittedly cynical and disrespectful) hypothesis could be that some of the low-income people are low-income precisely because they disliked abstract reasoning in the first place, thus making them less likely to pursue their education. To be honest, there are dozens of different ways to interpret this data.

Replace 'disliked' with 'incapable of,' and that hypothesis is neither cynical nor disrespectful. People with subpar cognitive abilities are less likely to move themselves out of poverty.

Re: How Poverty Taxes the Brain

#116

I can speak to this. For a while in 2010 I was completely broke after leaving my first job out of college, which I hated, and having some other employment opportunities fall through. Having that little money changes your decision making process about absolutely everything. Obviously every financial decision is effected, even the tiniest purchases weigh into bigger questions like "will I have enough money in my bank a…

I agree with a lot of what you're saying but one thing that's always bugged me is how we account for sub-optimal decisions. What I mean is that if I make 60k per year and I choose to spend very little of it by driving an un-fancy car and cooking all my meals at home and living in a small apartment (perhaps with a roommate) I might be able to save half my net income. Or I could spend nearly all of that income on a big…

If you're curious about causality could have saved yourself the trouble of constructing these thought experiments by reading the abstract:

"[W]e examined the cognitive function of farmers over the planting cycle. We found that the same farmer shows diminished cognitive performance before harvest, when poor, as compared with after harvest, when rich. This cannot be explained by differences in time available, nutrition, or work effort...Instead, it appears that poverty itself reduces cognitive capacity."

http://www.sciencemag.org/content/341/6149/976.abstract

Buying or not buying a soda seems like a plausible example arithmetically, but in practice any personal budget that does not include a few small luxuries is not a personal budget that anyone is going to follow. If it's not a soda it's going to be a magazine or something else eventually.

Anyway, even if we concede arguendo that those now presently in poverty got there by being stupid and drinking soda they couldn't afford or not finding cheaper lodgings etc., if we somehow removed bad decision makers from the population it wouldn't mean an end to poverty. It would just mean good decision makers would find themselves in poverty. That's because we need at least 5% unemployment to keep inflation at bay, with some number above that underemployed and some number below that dropping out of the workforce entirely. While those states could theoretically be transitory for everyone, in practice they're going to be sticky for a large number. So even in a population of 100% good decision makers you're still going to have some poverty just so the central banks don't run up against NAIRU.

And then, if this paper is correct, those new poor are also going to start having a hard time with congnitive tasks.

Re: How Poverty Taxes the Brain

#117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, careful with using that ramen as a currency unit. It sure is cheap, but it's the kind of food that will mess up your health long-term.

This is a weird statement: I ate at a ramen restaurant a couple of nights ago. It was quite healthy, I think I had pork, egg, spinach and seaweed in mine. There are plenty of good ramen restaurants branded from Japan. It is not the best food, but it is not the worst food either.

They're not thinking of ramen-at-the-noodle-house ramen.

They're thinking of nothing-but-cheap-dry-noodles-and-salt ramen.

Re: How Poverty Taxes the Brain

#118
post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a weird statement: I ate at a ramen restaurant a couple of nights ago. It was quite healthy, I think I had pork, egg, spinach and seaweed in mine. There are plenty of good ramen restaurants branded from Japan. It is not the best food, but it is not the worst food either.

In context, I think ramen should be read as "only ramen".

Especially since what was referred to was "packs of shitty ramen."

Re: How Poverty Taxes the Brain

#119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you as an anecdote trumps multiple people in the sample for the research?

It's funny how anecdotes in a comment section that support an article's premise are always upvoted/supported, but any anecdote that runs counter to it is always met with a hostile reaction.

Really, provided the article is well founded, comments that support it are doing a service to the readers and those that don't are doing a disservice (if they are giving people the sense they are typical). People respond to stories.

The problem, of course, is that anecdotes will exist on both sides of just about any issue, so they should be viewed with skepticism when trying to convince in the first place...

Re: How Poverty Taxes the Brain

#120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Each of those dozen eggs is worth 20 packs of shitty ramen Careful: at a point, qualitative aspects matter. Your eggs are proteins and fats (both of which are essential to survival -- your body cannot manufacture certain proteins and EFAs). Ramen is virtually 100% carbohydrate. While it's going to provide you with energy, it's not going to sustain other essential bodily functions. And I really have a hard time parsin…

As far as nutritional value goes, eggs are a great deal. Packed with protein your body can use and easy to prepare.

I do love me my eggs.

Not just protein, but healthy fats and tons of nutrients in those yolks.

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