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Reversing Sinclair's amazing 1974 calculator hack - half the ROM of the HP-35

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Re: Reversing Sinclair's amazing 1974 calculator hack - half the ROM of the HP-35

#61
post #20

Unfortunately, as calculator prices collapsed, so did Sinclair Radionics' profits, and the company was broken up in 1979 after heavy losses. He fought Moore's law, and the law won. But this whole thing reminds me of Woz's work in the first Apples. Why wasn't his genius work similarly wiped out? Soon after the Apple, there were dozens - hundreds - of new personal computer manufacturers. I think it's software. The valu…

Why wasn't his genius work similarly wiped out?

A good question. I'd say that the Apple II family survived longer than it deserved to because the hardware was so nice. Woz combined classical hacker insights with a look-and-feel quality ethic that the Commodores and Ataris couldn't live up to, being designed to target a price point beyond all else. Sure, those computers could do tricks with graphics and sound that the Apple couldn't match -- but if you wanted sharp, readable 80-column text for word processing or VisiCalc work, your only options were an Apple //e at $1500 or a similarly-equipped Tandy or IBM PC for well over $4000.

Apple's huge array of (relatively) low-cost peripherals also helped it compete against other platforms in the early days. These aspects weren't sexy but they were important to lots of home and small-business users.

Famously, the company was also smart enough to target K-12 education, which cultivated their marketplace from the ground up. Once again, the impression of quality versus the low-cost 8-bit competitors would have helped them do that.

Re: Reversing Sinclair's amazing 1974 calculator hack - half the ROM of the HP-35

#62
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After I got used to RPN (I had a lovely old HP-21) I found it much more intuitive. Stack-based thinking. No parentheses! (And I've used LISP for years, but that's entirely different.) RPN vs Infix/Algebraic used to be a holy-war topic. Like emacs vs vi, or iPhone vs Android. Once you go RPN, you can never go back again.

The one issue I've already had with RPN is that you require a separator between numbers anyways - in RPN it's too easy to parse "23 4 +" as "2 34 +", for example, especially if you're writing quickly.

Might have been better to demonstrate that using subtraction as addition is commutative and thus either one works fine in this case.

Re: Reversing Sinclair's amazing 1974 calculator hack - half the ROM of the HP-35

#63

I really wish someone would make a modern scientific calculator - Imagine what would be possible on a modern ARM processor. Even the new HP calculators use old ~70mhz ARM processors emulating the even older saturn HP48 code... You could build it on top of Android, and have the software be open-source while making money from selling the hardware (so you could run it on a touchscreen, but if you wanted a keyboard you'd…

Processing power hasn't been a bottleneck for a long time. Even the 4MHz Saturn processors were able to do reasonably fast 3d wireframe graphing. The only reason graphing calculators and scientific calculators still exist outside of schools is because they can provide a specialized user interface: a physical keyboard with a layout designed around calculation tasks, and a software environment that is similarly optimized for that narrow range of use cases. Neither of those aspects benefits significantly from Moore's Law. Instead, they can only benefit from the complementary products that other gadgets have made commodity components: high-resolution displays, lithium-ion batteries, SoCs that replace ASICs and make features like USB and SD support free.

Re: Reversing Sinclair's amazing 1974 calculator hack - half the ROM of the HP-35

#64
post #10

Reverse Polish Notation - sounds like the punch line to a really bad math joke

The joke has been going on for quite some time now - Lisp and related languages use Polish Notation everywhere. (The main benefit is that (R)PN is parenthesis-free, so it makes it easier for a calculator to process expressions with multiple operators. The use in programming languages is nonexistent but to make clear that +, *, .. are just like any other function call, where you would naturally use polish notation.)

> Lisp and related languages use Polish Notation everywhere.

> The main benefit is that (R)PN is parenthesis-free

... so what you're saying is Lisp has all those parenthesis just to troll us?

Seriously though, using PN can make implementing parsers a lot simpler as it makes the grammar less ambiguous.

Re: Reversing Sinclair's amazing 1974 calculator hack - half the ROM of the HP-35

#65
post #20

Unfortunately, as calculator prices collapsed, so did Sinclair Radionics' profits, and the company was broken up in 1979 after heavy losses. He fought Moore's law, and the law won. But this whole thing reminds me of Woz's work in the first Apples. Why wasn't his genius work similarly wiped out? Soon after the Apple, there were dozens - hundreds - of new personal computer manufacturers. I think it's software. The valu…

> Branding is also important (Jobs), which is why the Apple eventually fell to the "PC" - because the strongest computer brand in the world for decades was IBM.

IBM's deeply entrenched position in supply office equipment (pre-PC computers, sure, but lots beside) to business played a role in securing PC dominance over Apple in the personal computing market, but so did the fact IBM didn't protect the PC from clones (IIRC, this was not intended) or acquire exclusive rights to DOS, which resulted in both more variety and more low-price options in the "IBM PC-compatible" family.

Re: Reversing Sinclair's amazing 1974 calculator hack - half the ROM of the HP-35

#66

I really wish someone would make a modern scientific calculator - Imagine what would be possible on a modern ARM processor. Even the new HP calculators use old ~70mhz ARM processors emulating the even older saturn HP48 code... You could build it on top of Android, and have the software be open-source while making money from selling the hardware (so you could run it on a touchscreen, but if you wanted a keyboard you'd…

There are modern calculators: Mathematica, Matlab, and the most used: Excel

For tasks that need to be done away from a computer sure a calculator is handy but that has rather dwindled down to basic calculations. Schoolwork sure calculators are great but I never needed more than my HP-48 and when I did it was usually an assignment meant more for MATLAB/Mathematica.

Now for your point of building it on top of android, what I want is not another device but I want a new calculator built for android. Everyone has a smartphone these days why should I have to buy a calculator when I have a strong computer in my pocket. We just need an interface for smartphones and the appropriately strong (Programmable) back end.

This looks nice but I don't have an iPhone https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/nd1/id368497993?mt=8

Re: Reversing Sinclair's amazing 1974 calculator hack - half the ROM of the HP-35

#67
post #14
post #10

Reverse Polish Notation - sounds like the punch line to a really bad math joke

Allegedly the name "Polish Notation" stuck because nobody could pronounce its inventor's name: Jan Łukasiewicz

The correct pronunication is “John Wookuh-shev-eetch”, according to my decoding of the IPA notation [ˈjan wukaˈɕɛvʲitʂ] from Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan_%C5%81ukasiewicz) using Wikipedia’s help page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA_for_Polish.

Re: Reversing Sinclair's amazing 1974 calculator hack - half the ROM of the HP-35

#68
post #44
post #6

I am not sure what is more amazing, the original creation or the cleverness of the person who figured out everything they did. I guess the original creation but wow, now that is a dedicated hobbyist. The Visual 6502 group enjoys dissolving old chips in acid, photographing the die, and reverse-engineering them. Wow!

The Visual 6502 group enjoys dissolving old chips in acid, photographing the die, and reverse-engineering them. Unfortunately (or not, depending on your perspective) it's not just the Visual 6502 group that enjoys that. Any leading chip in the marketplace these days is almost immediately reverse engineered in this way. I haven't been in the chip business for a few years but I recall a company which offered this as a…

The difference is the Visual 6502 team does it for fun. It makes me wonder what cutting-edge technology from today will be hobby projects 40 years from now. My predictions: scanning tunneling microscopy, lots of genomics / molecular biology, "big data", some current cryptography, a lot of AI.

And to reply to the parent comment - designing the calculator in the first place is much more amazing.

Re: Reversing Sinclair's amazing 1974 calculator hack - half the ROM of the HP-35

#69
post #56
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Visual 6502 group enjoys dissolving old chips in acid, photographing the die, and reverse-engineering them. Unfortunately (or not, depending on your perspective) it's not just the Visual 6502 group that enjoys that. Any leading chip in the marketplace these days is almost immediately reverse engineered in this way. I haven't been in the chip business for a few years but I recall a company which offered this as a…

FlyLogic used to do some awesome teardowns too: http://www.flylogic.net/blog/ If you go back through their blog posts, they have some cool techniques for bypassing "security" metal meshes to read out the secure FLASH/ROM sections of chips. IIRC, one of the guys behind FlyLogic was involved in the high-profile reverse engineering of satellite receivers (ie. satellite pirating).

Zac Franken and Adam Laurie are doing this kind of stuff and making tools for hobbyists (http://zacsblog.aperturelabs.com/2013/02/diy-decapping-machi...)

Re: Reversing Sinclair's amazing 1974 calculator hack - half the ROM of the HP-35

#70
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

VisiCalc on the Apple had a huge contribution to its success. It was the proverbial "killer app" that drove Apple II sales.

Yes, that and Apple Writer. Full disclosure: I wrote Apple Writer.

Is this you?

http://www.atariarchives.org/deli/cottage_computer_programmi...

If so, how do I end up end where you are, in regards to wilderness programming and whatnot? Do you have a book (of any sort)? That's my dream.

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