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Why You’ve Never Read “I Have A Dream”

varnull.adityamukerjee.net

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Re: Why You’ve Never Read “I Have A Dream”

#191

Post by solistice »

lotu wrote: post #179
stonemetal wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't distributing that file be considered copyright infringement? Just because you can legally access it there doesn't mean you have the right to redistribute. Sure you could direct your students there, but you can't do the copying yourself if I am not mistaken. Seems like picking up 20-30 copies off amazon would be easier.

The intended use in important. If a teacher distributes the speech in order to teach a lesson about it, it is very different than if a business man sell a book of the speech. Furthermore, the negative publicity from suing a teacher, using Martin Luther King Jr's speech to teach about civil rights should make any teacher completely safe from lawsuits.

Possible publicity is a pretty weak protection compared to actual legality, and I can't imagine a regular teacher (I'm excluding highly idealistic teachers, but those are few and far strewn) would risk their job illegally distributing those texts/videos, if there is even a quanta of possibility that that happens.

Teachers aren't the idealized constructs they often use to teach.

Re: Why You’ve Never Read “I Have A Dream”

#194

Post by dfc »

rdl wrote: post #114
iends wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're saying we need more people who physically harm others?

Without the threat of someone more extreme, I don't believe someone like MLK can be terribly effective. I also don't think someone like MLK can work in a repressive regime which isn't generally subject to public will, or when trying to enforce human rights which are constitutionally protected, strongly wanted by a small affected population, but meaningless to the greater population. I can't see 50-80 year old non-tec…

Crypto as a 2nd Ammendment issue

That's why I like you rdl; munitions are munitions.

Re: Why You’ve Never Read “I Have A Dream”

#195

Post by huherto »

slacka wrote: post #84
bpatrianakos wrote: post #58

The author here makes a good point until he asks his final question. In the case of Dr. Martin Luther King I don't believe copyright would have had any influence on the likelihood of delivering it. The purpose of the speech was selfless and so despite the copyright issue being disappointing it doesn't seem like he would have said "well, since future students won't be able to read the full text of my speech why delive…

> But for every case like the King speech there are plenty more that are examples of its benefit. How does extending copyright to 70 years after his death benefit our culture or the dead author? Do you honestly think there is even a single song or piece of literature that was not written because the author was concerned about his grandchildren retaining copyright control over his idea? I appreciate that you're trying…

> grandchildren retaining copyright control over his idea

You are being conservative. Let's try to visualize a hypothetical example...

Age 25 children are born.

Age 40 write work of art.

Age 50 grand children are born.

Age 75 great grand children are born.

Age 80 dies.

100 years after being born. Great great grand children are born.

125 years after being born. Great great great grand children are born.

150 years after being born. Great great great great grand children are born. Copyright runs out.

Re: Why You’ve Never Read “I Have A Dream”

#196

Post by ww3 »

slg wrote: post #23

I have to disagree with part of the premise. While the speech is copyrighted, that might not be the reason most people haven't read or seen the entirety of the speech. If schools really wanted to teach it, it would be well within fair use laws for them to show the whole thing. There are probably a variety of other reasons why you don't see this speech taught in schools. First one that comes to mind is its length. Unl…

> I could certainly imagine people objecting to having the speech presented in a secular school.

Yes, and the price is both loss of freedom and loss of history. We've also lost books that aren't PC.

> Finally and probably most importantly, what do speeches really teach us?

Communication skills (Intonation, volume, speed, timing). Listening/attention skills (I doubt we have high school students anymore with the attention span to listen to the whole speech- I don't even have it because I'm too ADHD and brain fried). Sympathy (How can you listen and not feel it). History (Self evident, gives details and story to bland summarized facts). Need more?

Re: Why You’ve Never Read “I Have A Dream”

#197

Post by moocowduckquack »

slg wrote: post #23

I have to disagree with part of the premise. While the speech is copyrighted, that might not be the reason most people haven't read or seen the entirety of the speech. If schools really wanted to teach it, it would be well within fair use laws for them to show the whole thing. There are probably a variety of other reasons why you don't see this speech taught in schools. First one that comes to mind is its length. Unl…

"First one that comes to mind is its length. Unlike the Gettysburg Address, this isn't some short speech that could be easily recited from memory."

You are probably not learning it for recital to prove how clever you are, you are presumably reading it for study and analysis.

"Secondly, there is a lot of religious imagery in the speech. I could certainly imagine people objecting to having the speech presented in a secular school."

On what grounds? On that basis you couldn't have US school textbooks with translations of the letters of Christopher Columbus in them -

"In conclusion, to speak only of what has been accomplished on this voyage, which was so hasty, their Highnesses can see that I will give them as much gold as they may need, if their Highnesses will render me very slight assistance; presently, I will give them spices and cotton, as much as their Highnesses shall command… and slaves, as many as they shall order, and who will be from the idolaters. I believe also that I have found rhubarb and cinnamon, and I shall find a thousand other things of value, which the people whom I have left there will have discovered…

This is enough. And thus the eternal God, Our Lord, gives to all those who walk in His way triumph over things which appear to be impossible, and this was notably one. For, although men have talked or have written of these lands, all was conjectural, without ocular evidence. ... So that, since Our Redeemer has given the victory to our most illustrious King and Queen, and to their renowned kingdoms, in so great a matter, for this all Christendom ought to feel delight and make great feasts and give solemn thanks to the Holy Trinity, with many solemn prayers for the great exaltation which they shall have in the turning of so many peoples to our holy faith, and afterwards for the temporal benefits, because not only Spain but all Christendom will have hence refreshment and gain."

- The conclusion to his letter to King Ferdinand of Spain.

http://amhist.ist.unomaha.edu/module_files/Columbus%20to%20F...

"Finally and probably most importantly, what do speeches really teach us? They aren't particularly valuable outside of context."

What someone in the past said. Is part of learning about stuff, which is the context.

Re: Why You’ve Never Read “I Have A Dream”

#199

Post by Steko »

moocowduckquack wrote: post #197
slg wrote: post #23

I have to disagree with part of the premise. While the speech is copyrighted, that might not be the reason most people haven't read or seen the entirety of the speech. If schools really wanted to teach it, it would be well within fair use laws for them to show the whole thing. There are probably a variety of other reasons why you don't see this speech taught in schools. First one that comes to mind is its length. Unl…

"First one that comes to mind is its length. Unlike the Gettysburg Address, this isn't some short speech that could be easily recited from memory." You are probably not learning it for recital to prove how clever you are, you are presumably reading it for study and analysis. "Secondly, there is a lot of religious imagery in the speech. I could certainly imagine people objecting to having the speech presented in a sec…

"On that basis you couldn't have US school textbooks with translations of the letters of Christopher Columbus in them"

I don't know what your point is, most school textbooks don't include Colombus' letters either. And it's not that history textbooks can't include religious content but the more religious content there is the less likely you're going to see it in a secular textbook, grandparent is precisely right.

Re: Why You’ve Never Read “I Have A Dream”

#200

Post by bzbarsky »

flatline wrote: post #158

I don't know about you all, but public school did an abysmal job of teaching me any US history post-WWII. It's like nothing has happened in this country since the women's suffrage movement, with WWII a hasty footnote. Honestly, I think the politics were too hot to handle through the 1980s, when cultural divides arout Vietnam were very fresh, and those from King's time still not too distant. What is being taught in hi…

I actually think this has more to do with the textbook authors not thinking of those time periods as "history" but as "current events" somehow and hence not feeling like a "history" book needs to include them. If you were in school about 15-20 years ago, and the textbooks were about 15 years old (pretty common), and the authors were in their 40s or 50s when writing them, then events of 60-65 years ago, so the late 40s and early 50s, would have corresponded to their teenage years...

Once you get into the 70s or 80s, it's not just the textbook authors who think that way but also most of the teachers.

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