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Why You’ve Never Read “I Have A Dream”

varnull.adityamukerjee.net

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Re: Why You’ve Never Read “I Have A Dream”

#181

Post by [deleted] »

stonemetal wrote: post #133
vidarh wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was about to question whether or not you knew if this particular speech is actually available in its entirey anywhere that could be used as a source without potentially infringing copyright, but here it is available for download from the US National Archives: http://www.archives.gov/press/exhibits/dream-speech.pdf

Wouldn't distributing that file be considered copyright infringement? Just because you can legally access it there doesn't mean you have the right to redistribute. Sure you could direct your students there, but you can't do the copying yourself if I am not mistaken. Seems like picking up 20-30 copies off amazon would be easier.

[deleted]

Re: Why You’ve Never Read “I Have A Dream”

#183

Post by e12e »

Zimahl wrote: post #177
king_jester wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stokely Carmichael is 100% correct in this. Black people and communities have suffered violence from US society and the state for a long, long time. Carmichael may be a footnote to you, but he is one of the most influential activists in modern history.

...your opponent must have a conscience. The United States has none. Obviously he wasn't correct otherwise MLK would've been unsuccessful.

MLK was murdered, remember?

At any rate, MLK didn't exist in a vacuum. It is quite possible that the movement, if it only consisted of people that aligned with MLK, wouldn't have been as successful?

Re: Why You’ve Never Read “I Have A Dream”

#184

Post by [deleted] »

Zimahl wrote: post #177
king_jester wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stokely Carmichael is 100% correct in this. Black people and communities have suffered violence from US society and the state for a long, long time. Carmichael may be a footnote to you, but he is one of the most influential activists in modern history.

...your opponent must have a conscience. The United States has none. Obviously he wasn't correct otherwise MLK would've been unsuccessful.

[deleted]

Re: Why You’ve Never Read “I Have A Dream”

#185

Post by LukeShu »

chimeracoder wrote: post #80
LukeShu wrote: post #43

> ... the two other people who wrote it (and likely wrote most of it). For what it's worth, when MLK noticed he was failing to engage the audience, he went off-script and improvised a large portion of the speech.

All the more reason for people to watch the video (which is much more heavily controlled by the King estate) than to rely on the printed text!

Most text copies you find are transcripts of what he actually said, not the script he was reading. It's easy to tell the difference, because the phrase "I have a dream" isn't in the script he was reading!

Re: Why You’ve Never Read “I Have A Dream”

#186

Post by king_jester »

Zimahl wrote: post #175
king_jester wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Peaceful protest doesn't lead to a majority backlash, whereas aggressive, militant tactics do. Uh what!? Nonviolent protestors and activists faced tremendous amounts of violence for their activity in the civil rights movement, including being murdered. Freedom riders being attacked and having their buses attacked and burned, bombing of churches, lynch mobs, being assaulted at sit ins, etc. > MLK and his movement ar…

First, try to not be so inflammatory with your comments. At no point did I blame all black people for the behavior of the BPP or claiming that the BPP somehow set black people back. I merely stated that many of their tactics did not help the cause that they were for. And, yes, nonviolent protesters can and do face a very large amount of violence. But being violent back tends to solve nothing and MLK knew that. He als…

Elsewhere is this thread, you said:

> The exact type of rhetoric from a Black Panther that doesn't help his cause one iota. This is why MLK gets a national holiday and Carmichael is a footnote.

BPP and MLK are fundamentally about the advancement of black people from being considered 2nd class and subhuman. Of this cause you say BPP do not help their cause because of use of violence, this is a way of saying that the actions of BPP and the behavior of its members, who are predominantly black, are responsible for keeping their status in society from not improving. The realty is racism in the US has a long and violent history, that racism is what keeps black people and communities from improving their lives and status. Resistance to that violence is NOT responsible.

> And, yes, nonviolent protesters can and do face a very large amount of violence. But being violent back tends to solve nothing and MLK knew that. He also knew that with enough favorable support he could affect change.

That is true, but MLK was also keenly aware of the need for self defense and that not all forms of violence are unjustified[1][2][3]. Obviously this is a big split of ideology between MLK and BPP, but both MLK and BPP affected some kinds of change.

[1] http://mlk-kpp01.stanford.edu/index.php/encyclopedia/documen... [2] http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2011/09/the-secr... [3] http://www.philosophy.uncc.edu/mleldrid/SAAP/CLT/DP02.htm

Re: Why You’ve Never Read “I Have A Dream”

#187

Post by dragonwriter »

ignostic wrote: post #24

The speech is readily found by those who know how to Google. Perhaps more Americans would have read the speech if not for the crazy copyright laws, but I think most people haven't read it simply because most people aren't interested in reading historical speeches. It's a little off-topic and a little cynical, but I think the larger issue here is that we've watered our teaching of history (and most things) down to sou…

> What we learned about Columbus, MLK, and all the founding fathers were stripped of everything controversial

"Inconsistent with the preferred simple narrative" is probably more accurate than "controversial" here.

Re: Why You’ve Never Read “I Have A Dream”

#188

Post by warfangle »

masklinn wrote: post #52
slg wrote: post #23

I have to disagree with part of the premise. While the speech is copyrighted, that might not be the reason most people haven't read or seen the entirety of the speech. If schools really wanted to teach it, it would be well within fair use laws for them to show the whole thing. There are probably a variety of other reasons why you don't see this speech taught in schools. First one that comes to mind is its length. Unl…

> If schools really wanted to teach it, it would be well within fair use laws for them to show the whole thing. No, not a chance. Even a few paragraphs would likely get them smashed, especially if they're the most interesting of the speech. > First one that comes to mind is its length. Have people stopped studying books or something? > Secondly, there is a lot of religious imagery in the speech. I could certainly ima…

> I wouldn't.

Neither would I. We studied the book of Ruth in an ancient literature course in high school, along with Gilgamesh, et al. It was very interesting to read them in that context.

The effect of religion is inseparable from the course of history. It's possible to approach it from a non-theistic context.

Re: Why You’ve Never Read “I Have A Dream”

#189

Post by ghshephard »

150 used, starting at $0.65 - I don't really think this material is that difficult to acquire.

http://www.amazon.com/Have-Dream-Writings-Speeches-Anniversa...

""I Have a Dream: Writings and Speeches That Changed the World," by Martin Luther King, Jr., is a fine collection of texts by this important figure. The book has been edited by James M. Washington. Coming in at less than 300 pages, this is a concise but meaty book. Washington includes King's most important texts: the "Letter from Birmingham Jail"; the "I Have a Dream" speech; his Nobel Prize acceptance speech; "My Trip to the Land of Gandhi"; "A Time to Break Silence," his 1967 speech criticizing the United States war in Vietnam, and more. These writings and speeches cover King's great themes: nonviolent resistance, the African-American civil rights movement, etc."

Re: Why You’ve Never Read “I Have A Dream”

#190

Post by smsm42 »

slg wrote: post #23

I have to disagree with part of the premise. While the speech is copyrighted, that might not be the reason most people haven't read or seen the entirety of the speech. If schools really wanted to teach it, it would be well within fair use laws for them to show the whole thing. There are probably a variety of other reasons why you don't see this speech taught in schools. First one that comes to mind is its length. Unl…

>>> I could certainly imagine people objecting to having the speech presented in a secular school.

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

I wonder how they deal with that religious imagery. Or they neglect to mention that unimportant document altogether?

I can understand when people object to school propagandizing religion or requiring some religious rites or observances from non-religious people. But completely removing a part of history because religion is mentioned there or certain figure was, in fact, a religious man? That's just insane, and anti-religious bigot would be as bad as a religious one.

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