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New Zealand bans some software patents

zdnet.com

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Re: New Zealand bans some software patents

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know. Every legal concept is entirely the government's creation, including both physical and intellectual property, so I'm not sure it's worth quibbling about that part.

While intellectual property is almost entirely a legal creation, government is not necessary for property to exist. Indeed, John Locke considered property to be a natural right along with life and liberty.

Sorry, if it's you in the forest with a shotgun defending your property in a libertarian utopia, you're the government.

Re: New Zealand bans some software patents

#62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know. Every legal concept is entirely the government's creation, including both physical and intellectual property, so I'm not sure it's worth quibbling about that part.

While intellectual property is almost entirely a legal creation, government is not necessary for property to exist. Indeed, John Locke considered property to be a natural right along with life and liberty.

Locke's definition of property always felt like a philosophical hack to me.

It seemed more like an, "Oh shit, I need a definition of property," than a "Well... so that's what property is. Fascinating."

Re: New Zealand bans some software patents

#63
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is his job to create a perception that his side is winning. Because perception drives behavior and affects reality. Therefore every event is spun to make it look as good as possible for the pro-patent side so that actual innovators will get demoralized about resisting that tide. No, I do not know why someone would consider it worth their while to pay for this. But someone apparently does, as is evidenced by his se…

@btilly My articles on how the lawsuit was going weren't "inaccurate". The district judge ruled against the copyrightability of the declaring code Oracle asserted, and that decision is on appeal. The parties have completed their briefing, numerous amici curiae ("friends of the court") have made submissions, and the appeals court will hold a hearing in a matter of months.

The inaccuracies started with your claim to be an "independent" analyst when you were actually a paid shill, and only got worse from there.

You are right that there is an appeal - there always is. But consider that the judge the first time around ruled nothing like you claimed would happen. On anything. Why should we expect the appeal to be different?

Re: New Zealand bans some software patents

#64
post #47
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that relevant to the merits of his argument?

Let's cut to the chase. No-one has time to become an expert on absolutely everything. To some extent, we have to choose who to listen to, and then trust that they are speaking true. Anything else is completely unmanageable. So your argument, while logically correct, is not applicable. In the real world, we don't take the sex offender's word that our child is safe on its pure merits. When someone with a long and vivid…

> When someone with a long and vivid history of acting against the interests of the community speaks, it is on them to overcome the prejudice against them, not on us.

Who has a "long and vivid history of acting against the interests of the community"? It's clearly not Müller: [1].

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florian_Müller

Re: New Zealand bans some software patents

#65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While intellectual property is almost entirely a legal creation, government is not necessary for property to exist. Indeed, John Locke considered property to be a natural right along with life and liberty.

Sorry, if it's you in the forest with a shotgun defending your property in a libertarian utopia, you're the government.

I get what you're aiming at but if you're holding the shotgun, that's not government. Government is when I cede the right to protect my forest with a shotgun in order that a government entity will do it for me. We give government a monopoly on force under the agreement that I generally should not be shooting people to protect my rights.

Re: New Zealand bans some software patents

#66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, if it's you in the forest with a shotgun defending your property in a libertarian utopia, you're the government.

I get what you're aiming at but if you're holding the shotgun, that's not government. Government is when I cede the right to protect my forest with a shotgun in order that a government entity will do it for me. We give government a monopoly on force under the agreement that I generally should not be shooting people to protect my rights.

It's a totalitarian government where the dictator and the sole citizen of the state are the same person, and the citizen works for the dictator (well, there's no choice). Government is simply the application of force to create rights. No more, no less.

But also, if you come onto my property, you don't have to cede authority to me, I'm still the government and I will make decisions about what happens to you, so you are bound to my laws whether you like it or not.

Re: New Zealand bans some software patents

#67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While intellectual property is almost entirely a legal creation, government is not necessary for property to exist. Indeed, John Locke considered property to be a natural right along with life and liberty.

Sorry, if it's you in the forest with a shotgun defending your property in a libertarian utopia, you're the government.

Like most normal well adjusted people, I don't steal and I expect and find that those around me do the same. The reason my coworkers haven't stolen the keyboard off my desk when I go to get coffee isn't the government, it is just because they have some base-level respect for me. Clearly the concept of property, at least as it exists in my office, is not an artifact of some governing body. It exists despite that; it exists without any threat of force.

Or is that most basic mutual respect now "the government" in an office environment? If that is the case then we are basically removing any useful meaning from the word.

Re: New Zealand bans some software patents

#68

As Orwell wrote, "the English language ... becomes ugly and inaccurate because our thoughts are foolish, but the slovenliness of our language makes it easier for us to have foolish thoughts." Considering that patents are entirely a government creation, "ban" or "outlaw" does not apply, for such language treats patents as something apart from the state. Perhaps "stops issuing" would be more accurate, but it's not clea…

I don't know. Every legal concept is entirely the government's creation, including both physical and intellectual property, so I'm not sure it's worth quibbling about that part.

Legal concepts that are derivative from the natural right to liberty, e.g. freedom of speech, are protected by the government, but that is not the same as them being created by the government. An individual certainly has liberty, and thus freedom of speech, in the context of a state of nature. He does not, however, have a guarantee that an organization with a monopoly on the use of force, i.e. a government, will protect that liberty.

Re: New Zealand bans some software patents

#69
post #51
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's cut to the chase. No-one has time to become an expert on absolutely everything. To some extent, we have to choose who to listen to, and then trust that they are speaking true. Anything else is completely unmanageable. So your argument, while logically correct, is not applicable. In the real world, we don't take the sex offender's word that our child is safe on its pure merits. When someone with a long and vivid…

I don't get it. Let's stipulate that he is an Oracle puppet. Why would that incentivize him to lie about what the bill actually covers? Regardless of his incentives, is he wrong that not all software patents would be prevented under this bill? Disclosure: I'm a Microsoft employee, so I probably have some devious motives, too.

Well, given that Microsoft is shaking down people across the industry with patents (http://www.forbes.com/sites/timothylee/2011/07/07/microsofts...) including stuff like FAT32 against B&N, one has to suspect bias.

Re: New Zealand bans some software patents

#70
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, if it's you in the forest with a shotgun defending your property in a libertarian utopia, you're the government.

Like most normal well adjusted people, I don't steal and I expect and find that those around me do the same. The reason my coworkers haven't stolen the keyboard off my desk when I go to get coffee isn't the government, it is just because they have some base-level respect for me. Clearly the concept of property, at least as it exists in my office, is not an artifact of some governing body. It exists despite that; it e…

That's a good point. The last time I was reading about this I found out that some anarchists (pacifists, maybe) refer to this idea as "possession", to distinguish it from property. It's not "your" keyboard (in this case it probably belongs to the company), but you're using it right now, so it would be indecent to take it away from you.
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