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New Zealand bans some software patents

zdnet.com

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Re: New Zealand bans some software patents

#51

Post by kvb »

venus wrote: post #47
kvb wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that relevant to the merits of his argument?

Let's cut to the chase. No-one has time to become an expert on absolutely everything. To some extent, we have to choose who to listen to, and then trust that they are speaking true. Anything else is completely unmanageable. So your argument, while logically correct, is not applicable. In the real world, we don't take the sex offender's word that our child is safe on its pure merits. When someone with a long and vivid…

I don't get it. Let's stipulate that he is an Oracle puppet. Why would that incentivize him to lie about what the bill actually covers? Regardless of his incentives, is he wrong that not all software patents would be prevented under this bill?

Disclosure: I'm a Microsoft employee, so I probably have some devious motives, too.

Re: New Zealand bans some software patents

#52

Post by foobarbazqux »

ataggart wrote: post #22

As Orwell wrote, "the English language ... becomes ugly and inaccurate because our thoughts are foolish, but the slovenliness of our language makes it easier for us to have foolish thoughts." Considering that patents are entirely a government creation, "ban" or "outlaw" does not apply, for such language treats patents as something apart from the state. Perhaps "stops issuing" would be more accurate, but it's not clea…

I don't know. Every legal concept is entirely the government's creation, including both physical and intellectual property, so I'm not sure it's worth quibbling about that part.

Re: New Zealand bans some software patents

#54

Post by johnchristopher »

foobarbazqux wrote: post #52
ataggart wrote: post #22

As Orwell wrote, "the English language ... becomes ugly and inaccurate because our thoughts are foolish, but the slovenliness of our language makes it easier for us to have foolish thoughts." Considering that patents are entirely a government creation, "ban" or "outlaw" does not apply, for such language treats patents as something apart from the state. Perhaps "stops issuing" would be more accurate, but it's not clea…

I don't know. Every legal concept is entirely the government's creation, including both physical and intellectual property, so I'm not sure it's worth quibbling about that part.

Every legal concept is entirely the government's creation, including both physical and intellectual property, so I'm not sure it's worth quibbling about that part.

Not entirely true. I want to point out that we have to consider how lobbying is influencing lawmakers.

Re: New Zealand bans some software patents

#55

Post by venus »

kvb wrote: post #51
venus wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's cut to the chase. No-one has time to become an expert on absolutely everything. To some extent, we have to choose who to listen to, and then trust that they are speaking true. Anything else is completely unmanageable. So your argument, while logically correct, is not applicable. In the real world, we don't take the sex offender's word that our child is safe on its pure merits. When someone with a long and vivid…

I don't get it. Let's stipulate that he is an Oracle puppet. Why would that incentivize him to lie about what the bill actually covers? Regardless of his incentives, is he wrong that not all software patents would be prevented under this bill? Disclosure: I'm a Microsoft employee, so I probably have some devious motives, too.

Do you know what a heuristic is?

Basically, being an Oracle puppet is an extremely negative heuristic for being a useful voice on anything related to software IP. Absent compelling evidence to the contrary, I am inclined to ignore any and all opinions of said puppet.

And FWIW, being a Microsoft employee defending an Oracle stooge doesn't play all that well either.

Isn't this all common sense?

Re: New Zealand bans some software patents

#56

Post by btilly »

kvb wrote: post #51
venus wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's cut to the chase. No-one has time to become an expert on absolutely everything. To some extent, we have to choose who to listen to, and then trust that they are speaking true. Anything else is completely unmanageable. So your argument, while logically correct, is not applicable. In the real world, we don't take the sex offender's word that our child is safe on its pure merits. When someone with a long and vivid…

I don't get it. Let's stipulate that he is an Oracle puppet. Why would that incentivize him to lie about what the bill actually covers? Regardless of his incentives, is he wrong that not all software patents would be prevented under this bill? Disclosure: I'm a Microsoft employee, so I probably have some devious motives, too.

It is his job to create a perception that his side is winning. Because perception drives behavior and affects reality. Therefore every event is spun to make it look as good as possible for the pro-patent side so that actual innovators will get demoralized about resisting that tide.

No, I do not know why someone would consider it worth their while to pay for this. But someone apparently does, as is evidenced by his series of extremely confident, widely covered, and provably inaccurate articles on how the Oracle lawsuit against Google was going.

Re: New Zealand bans some software patents

#57

Post by FOSSpatents »

btilly wrote: post #56
kvb wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get it. Let's stipulate that he is an Oracle puppet. Why would that incentivize him to lie about what the bill actually covers? Regardless of his incentives, is he wrong that not all software patents would be prevented under this bill? Disclosure: I'm a Microsoft employee, so I probably have some devious motives, too.

It is his job to create a perception that his side is winning. Because perception drives behavior and affects reality. Therefore every event is spun to make it look as good as possible for the pro-patent side so that actual innovators will get demoralized about resisting that tide. No, I do not know why someone would consider it worth their while to pay for this. But someone apparently does, as is evidenced by his se…

@btilly My articles on how the lawsuit was going weren't "inaccurate". The district judge ruled against the copyrightability of the declaring code Oracle asserted, and that decision is on appeal. The parties have completed their briefing, numerous amici curiae ("friends of the court") have made submissions, and the appeals court will hold a hearing in a matter of months.

Re: New Zealand bans some software patents

#58

Post by foobarbazqux »

johnchristopher wrote: post #54
foobarbazqux wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know. Every legal concept is entirely the government's creation, including both physical and intellectual property, so I'm not sure it's worth quibbling about that part.

Every legal concept is entirely the government's creation, including both physical and intellectual property, so I'm not sure it's worth quibbling about that part. Not entirely true. I want to point out that we have to consider how lobbying is influencing lawmakers.

Sure, lots of things influence the government. But the point is that none of our legal concepts actually exist until the government decides to make laws and enforce them.

Re: New Zealand bans some software patents

#59

Post by [deleted] »

1010011010 wrote: post #33
FOSSpatents wrote: post #9

Not so fast. Spin doctoring is no substitute for substance. As Caesar used to say, "fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt" (people are ready to believe what they want to be the case). The fact of the matter is that New Zealand has passed a law with some restrictive language, but this is far from abolition. Broad swaths of software patents can still be granted. Here's my more detailed take on it: http://www.fos…

Are you still getting paid by Oracle?

[deleted]

Re: New Zealand bans some software patents

#60

Post by humanrebar »

foobarbazqux wrote: post #52
ataggart wrote: post #22

As Orwell wrote, "the English language ... becomes ugly and inaccurate because our thoughts are foolish, but the slovenliness of our language makes it easier for us to have foolish thoughts." Considering that patents are entirely a government creation, "ban" or "outlaw" does not apply, for such language treats patents as something apart from the state. Perhaps "stops issuing" would be more accurate, but it's not clea…

I don't know. Every legal concept is entirely the government's creation, including both physical and intellectual property, so I'm not sure it's worth quibbling about that part.

While intellectual property is almost entirely a legal creation, government is not necessary for property to exist. Indeed, John Locke considered property to be a natural right along with life and liberty.
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