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How to (Not) Hire Freelancers for Your Startup

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Re: How to (Not) Hire Freelancers for Your Startup

#31

Post by scotty79 »

chasing wrote: post #28

I've been a freelancer for the better part of 17 years. A few quick reactions: 1. (Code reviews.) This seems really rare, in my experience, and there are a few problems with it. For one, the code reviewer might not be better than the original developer. And they may not know the constraints and development process of the project. Secondly, the one time someone wrote up a major code review for a project I had recently…

> 2. (Sample projects.) Sorry, I don't do these.

Even if they are paid for? If so, why?

Re: How to (Not) Hire Freelancers for Your Startup

#32

Post by mcdougle »

chasing wrote: post #28

I've been a freelancer for the better part of 17 years. A few quick reactions: 1. (Code reviews.) This seems really rare, in my experience, and there are a few problems with it. For one, the code reviewer might not be better than the original developer. And they may not know the constraints and development process of the project. Secondly, the one time someone wrote up a major code review for a project I had recently…

(Sample Projects) -- Hey, if you wanna pay me to do a sample project and then also pay me to do the actual project, fine. I can see how that would work if the sample project is a small subset of the actual project. If you expect me to do work for free in hopes that I can do work for pay.... yeah, no.

(Goal Alignment) -- In any business, the service provider should have an investment in the client's success. Primary goals might not be the same, but if the freelancer isn't doing it to help you -- you have a bigger problem.

(Hourly vs. Fixed Price) -- I imagine any issues with fixed-price contracts can be avoided by going over requirements thoroughly at the outset and having a good agreement set up in writing. I've been bitten by this before, but I know it was my own fault for not setting things up right at the start.

------------------------

All in all, I think a better though process for this blog post would be "How to Hire (better) Freelancers" or something.

Re: How to (Not) Hire Freelancers for Your Startup

#33

Post by mjolk »

jtbigwoo wrote: post #27
StavrosK wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Perhaps I'm a jerk, but I don't feel bad when non-waiters get taken for a ride when hiring waiters for a restaurant." This makes no sense. If you want to open a restaurant, you need to know the restaurant business well, not how to efficiently coordinate table serving.

Alternatively, if you want to open a restaurant, you shouldn't need to be an expert in plumbing, electrical, framing, HVAC, upholstery, cabinet-making, painting, and floor refinishing just to get the place ready to open.

Sure, but you hire professionals to perform and inspect this work, and at the end, have a local official verify the work has been done. Your example really stretches the analogy as buying/renting a structure is not at all similar to trying to get a stranger to build a core product that you can't maintain.

Re: How to (Not) Hire Freelancers for Your Startup

#34

Post by chasing »

scotty79 wrote: post #31
chasing wrote: post #28

I've been a freelancer for the better part of 17 years. A few quick reactions: 1. (Code reviews.) This seems really rare, in my experience, and there are a few problems with it. For one, the code reviewer might not be better than the original developer. And they may not know the constraints and development process of the project. Secondly, the one time someone wrote up a major code review for a project I had recently…

> 2. (Sample projects.) Sorry, I don't do these. Even if they are paid for? If so, why?

They're too small. Any project requires a certain amount of headspace. I just don't have enough to work on two hour projects that may or may not lead to something else. It just sounds like a pain-in-the-ass.

Also, being a good developer doesn't mean I know how for loops and basic OOP works -- it means I know how to build and organize non-trivial projects that require thought and care. Having me work for two hours on something random won't tell you anything about this.

Re: How to (Not) Hire Freelancers for Your Startup

#35

Post by whiddershins »

>>> Hire an expert to regularly review your code. Contrary to what you may think this doesn’t cost much. A good developer can tell “good” from “obviously bad” code in a matter of minutes. Hire a consultant for one hour and he can tell you exactly what state your code is in. >>>

Where? How? I've tried. Even if for my own code I would love it. Any credible recommendations and I would do it.

Re: How to (Not) Hire Freelancers for Your Startup

#36

Post by whiddershins »

scottlilly wrote: post #25
7Figures2Commas wrote: post #18

> Hire an expert to regularly review your code. Contrary to what you may think this doesn’t cost much. Any good developer can tell “good” from “obviously bad” code in a matter of minutes. Hire a consultant for one hour and he can tell you exactly what state your code is in. Generally-speaking, an "expert" is not likely to be interested in periodic code review engagements: 1. Most "consultants" aren't working on an ho…

I've actually been thinking about offering a code review service, since it would fit well with the way I like to work. Personally, I wouldn't want to do one-hour reviews, but would be very happy selling four hour blocks of my time. A third-party code review could easily point out certain problems that aren't only qualitative (e.g., the code is vulnerable to SQL injection attacks). It could also be useful to evaluate…

Sounds like a good idea to me. The biggest problem is establishing credibility, and deserving the credibility. The code reviewer really needs to be up to the task.

Re: How to (Not) Hire Freelancers for Your Startup

#37

Post by cookiecaper »

jtbigwoo wrote: post #27
StavrosK wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Perhaps I'm a jerk, but I don't feel bad when non-waiters get taken for a ride when hiring waiters for a restaurant." This makes no sense. If you want to open a restaurant, you need to know the restaurant business well, not how to efficiently coordinate table serving.

Alternatively, if you want to open a restaurant, you shouldn't need to be an expert in plumbing, electrical, framing, HVAC, upholstery, cabinet-making, painting, and floor refinishing just to get the place ready to open.

The reason you don't need to be an expert in all these things is because there are governmentally mandated codes, licensures and bonds with which all such workers must comply or face governmental censure. These standards have supposedly been crafted to represent an acceptable minimum quality of work by qualified persons.

Re: How to (Not) Hire Freelancers for Your Startup

#38

Post by markkanof »

The idea that "goals are not aligned" is very much dependent on the freelancer you hire, and is not a universal truth. The way I approach all my projects is that I (like everyone else) have a limited amount of time left on this earth. I feel a real sense of urgency to make the best use of that time doing meaningful work that I can be proud of.

The idea of just churning on a project to make a few extra dollars really makes me feel a little bit sick. The opportunity cost of that time is just too great. I would much rather take the most efficient route possible to build what my client wants and then be able to start on the next project. Hopefully the client is pleased with my work and that next project might even come from them.

Re: How to (Not) Hire Freelancers for Your Startup

#39

Post by chasing »

mjolk wrote: post #30
chasing wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(I love how you can just kind of say whatever thoughtless thing you want, as long as you call yourself out for being an asshole first.) Perhaps I'm a jerk, but I don't feel bad making fun of people who write dumb comments on Hacker News. Or. Perhaps I'm a jerk, but I don't feel bad when non-business people get take for a ride when hiring people to help them run the business side of their tech-startup. Why should I fe…

>Businesses require teams of talented people who can trust one another. Not everyone knows everything -- and if you think that everyone should just take advantage of each other, well, remind me to never hire you. Or work for you. Keep in mind that this article is about hiring outsourced/contract/freelance labor, not future partners/members of a team.

Yup, I know. Freelancers are members of the team, btw. And I still think it's not cool to find it perfectly acceptable for someone to scam someone else just because they can. Or to say that people who try to do things they're not good at deserve to be scammed.
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