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Spain begins disciplinary proceedings against site for violating Cookie Law

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Re: Spain begins disciplinary proceedings against site for violating Cookie Law

#71

Post by sergiosgc »

kintamanimatt wrote: post #14
ealexhudson wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one of the most stupid and anti-user laws on the books. Worse, it's probably the only law I've ever seen have an instant and devastating effect on the UX of a swathe of websites. Hopefully they are going to start suing people regularly (unlike the inaction being taken in the UK) so that business wakes up to this stupid law and finally gets it repealed, the sooner the better.

Can it really be repealed by the Spanish government if they're required to enact such a law as a result of an EU Directive? They could take the UK's approach of turning a blind eye, but I tend to feel it's wrong for a country to pick and choose which laws to enforce.

The EU is a set of treaties between sovereign states. The Parliament in each state supercedes the EU bodies (commission and parliament namely). So, yes they can repeal the law. It violates the treaty, and they'll be fined, but that's about it.

Re: Spain begins disciplinary proceedings against site for violating Cookie Law

#72

Post by kintamanimatt »

sergiosgc wrote: post #71
kintamanimatt wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can it really be repealed by the Spanish government if they're required to enact such a law as a result of an EU Directive? They could take the UK's approach of turning a blind eye, but I tend to feel it's wrong for a country to pick and choose which laws to enforce.

The EU is a set of treaties between sovereign states. The Parliament in each state supercedes the EU bodies (commission and parliament namely). So, yes they can repeal the law. It violates the treaty, and they'll be fined, but that's about it.

Can Spain even afford such a fine?

Re: Spain begins disciplinary proceedings against site for violating Cookie Law

#74

Post by icebraining »

albertoperdomo wrote: post #25
martinml wrote: post #2

Sorry for submitting a Google Translate link. It's not doing a perfect job on a legal text but I didn't find any source in English. This is a blogpost of the lawyer taking this case, and the client name is unknown yet. Here's my summary of some facts (IANAL!): - The cookies being investigated are from Google Analytics, Google Maps, YouTube, Adsense and WordPress. - The website was setting the cookies in the browser a…

Please also note that according to the post if the sites are hosted in third party platforms like Facebook, Tumblr, that install tracking cookies the owner of the site can still be sued, even if it's without his control. In practical terms this means that any individual or business hosting having a Facebook profile page or blog on Tumblr could be sued. This is just Spanish law at it's best (I'm Spanish, too)

If you bought on an online store, an it used an insecure third-party payment provider which leaked your CC number all over the web, would you say the same?

Re: Spain begins disciplinary proceedings against site for violating Cookie Law

#75

Post by icebraining »

AJ007 wrote: post #42
ensmotko wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that every site owner displays a slightly different popup. A few of my friends were trying to build a chrome extension[1], but they soon figured out they are going to need custom Javascript for every site in Slovenia (and others of course, but they were focusing on Slovenia) and they abandoned the project. Personally I believe EU should target browsers not site owners for this. At least by doing so we…

One would assume that the act of visiting a web site, from a personally identifiable IP address, using a web browser that accepts cookies is an act of consent to receive those cookies. The behavior is both expected, avoidable, and blockable. This approach -- either by law, or by some "do not track" flag broadcast to web sites is the equivalent of walking through a busy city with hundred dollar bills hanging out of yo…

Expected? By whom? Technologists like us, yes, but not many of the general public. Walking around with $100s is a false analogy; accepting tracking cookies is completely invisible to the user. Furthermore, even if one does walk with $100s, theft is still illegal.

Re: Spain begins disciplinary proceedings against site for violating Cookie Law

#76

Post by sergiosgc »

kintamanimatt wrote: post #72
sergiosgc wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU is a set of treaties between sovereign states. The Parliament in each state supercedes the EU bodies (commission and parliament namely). So, yes they can repeal the law. It violates the treaty, and they'll be fined, but that's about it.

Can Spain even afford such a fine?

Afford? Yes. Willing, not really in this case. The fine is high enough to hurt, but low enough to be supportable if a country really wishes to violate the directive. Think of a ballpark in the order of 20 million euros per year (fines are paid until the directive gets transposed into national law).

Re: Spain begins disciplinary proceedings against site for violating Cookie Law

#77

Post by Maarten88 »

bolder88 wrote: post #64
velik_m wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cookies are just ONE method, that's why the law is not limited to cookies, but instead refers to all client side saving technologies (of which the cookies are the most common). Your post is yet another fantastic demonstration why criticizing the EU, without knowing what you're talking about, is such a bad idea.

I know precisely what I'm talking about. Still, I guess I should have been clearer - there are several "non client side" saving technologies which are outside the scope of this law, and make the law completely useless. Further though, I would criticise the EU whatever the content of this law. We do not need a law to enforce rules about a specific technology of HTTP. What the hell business is it of the EU? The EU is a…

> The EU is absolutely obsessed with writing up laws to invade into absolutely every area of our lives.

That is a funny way to frame it! Being European I, for one, welcome a government trying to protect me from the massive, for-profit, privacy invasion and user data trafficking that the internet business currently is.

And, as said before, the "cookie law" applies to any form of user tracking and storing or exchanging user-specific data. You can't code around it. Sending visitor data to Google Analytics server-side could technically hide the cookie, but it would legally be exactly the same as using the cookie based client-side javascript.

Re: Spain begins disciplinary proceedings against site for violating Cookie Law

#79

Post by Maarten88 »

notatoad wrote: post #9

Has there been any work done at all to standardize this process and allow users to opt-in to cookies at a browser level, so that we can all stop seeing this stupid warning? would that even be allowed under the law? i tried to download a firefox extension called "cookiesOK", but it doesn't seem to work in most cases.

> Has there been any work done at all to standardize this process and allow users to opt-in to cookies at a browser level

Yes, it's called DNT (Do Not Track)

It could solve exactly this problem, but it is effectively sabotaged by the internet industry.

Re: Spain begins disciplinary proceedings against site for violating Cookie Law

#80

Post by malandrew »

dasil003 wrote: post #70
claudius wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The best balance would be to present the user with a page that lists all the things the site would like to track and let the user opt in to any way in which they would like to be tracked . FTFY.

That's not a balance. That makes the cookies effectively unusable since 99% of people stick with defaults, and even more so in this case because they'll see the boilerplate so often that a spinal reflex will kick in before they even see the box with their conscious brain. This will, in turn force all websites to force users to accept the tracking in order to use the service.

Ok, better option.

Give the user four big buttons.

(1) "Deselect all tracking options. I will choose the ones I want" (2) "Select all tracking optimal user experience, but don't opt me into additional tracking metrics for your use" (3) "Opt me into all tracking options, both those for an optimal user experience and ones that help you improve the service." (4) "Give me the most commonly selected options by previously registered users"

(1) is privacy mode. (2) is privacy mode with some concessions for optimal experience. (3) is okay I'll help you guys out. and (4) is I trust the wisdom of the crowds.

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