I will continue to opt out. Not a fan of the new machines.
Defeated
311–320 of 445 posts
Re: Defeated
#312Earlier quoted context omitted.
I agree with the general spirit of your post, however: Amsterdam Schipol has (a lot of) scanning machines as well. Germany has more freedom in certain areas and less freedom in others. (you can't take your empty bottles to the recycling bins on Sunday for example)
of all the things bothering me about Germany, this is not one of them. More the fact that nearly all shops close at 8pm and everything is closed on sunday.
At least here in Berlin many supermarkets only close at 22 PM or even at midnight. Haven't yet found any that are open on Sunday, though.
Re: Defeated
#313There is an extremely simple solution: leave. I've not lived in the US for almost two years now. I've only had to travel back twice in that time. Meanwhile, in the same time I've visited France, Belgium, the Netherlands, and Germany multiple times. None of those travel experiences were nearly as unpleasant or stressful as my two trips to the US. Furthermore, the technology communities that are growing up in these pla…
> There is an extremely simple solution: leave.
I did exactly that during the second term of Bush Jr. Left for Canada, and haven't been back since. The longer I'm gone, the more I don't want to go back. I miss my guns, but I'd miss my rights more.
My relatives have to experience egregious security checks while coming to visit me, but once they're here, their human rights are respected. Many of them (NRA members, even) are thinking of moving here for good.
Re: Defeated
#314Earlier quoted context omitted.
This might sound really weird but I actually believe that for people who like freedom post-communist countries that were NOT part of Soviet Union can be quite good place to live right now. I had previously spent 7 months in the US and I had lived in UK for 2.5 years and now I live in the Czech Republic. I guess this is very subjective but I believe that for example this country currently offers way more freedom than…
A good deal of Eastern Europe is still quite homophobic and xenophobic, even if there are no actual discrimination laws in place.
[citation needed]
Re: Defeated
#315I find it odd that a community like HN is reasonable, calm, and science-based on all but a few issues, like the TSA. The problem is not the body scanners. The problem is the TSA and the disregard of the bill of rights.
Health claims:
Passive mm-wave scanners do not produce radiation. The active mm-wave scanners use non-ionizing radiation which has been studied and shown not to cause cancer. One study even suggested it might reduce metastasis:
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/bem.20208/abstrac...
You'll pick up far more radiation on the flight itself at a fairly low 5 mrem (50 µSv). Even that would only be a significant factor if you're part of the flight crew.
http://hps.org/publicinformation/ate/faqs/commercialflights....
It's true that the machine itself hasn't been studied much, but the type of radiation it emits has been studied extensively. Barring any novel delivery system, that's enough. By analogy, you don't need to study the health effects of every single x-ray machine because we know what x-rays do. You just need to know the machine's dosage and wavelength. The lack of health concern is more than a stab in the dark.
Invasion of privacy:
Yes, the scans are absolutely an invasion of privacy. So is submitting to a pat-down. The problem isn't the scanner - it's the bureaucratic nonsense that makes the security state and the TSA possible.
I believe a business should have the right to search you before coming on board if they want to and you agree, but they shouldn't HAVE TO. Flyers should have an option between airlines that use the security measures the market determines people actually want.
Specifically, the "naked body" invasion:
It does us harm to spout misinformation in our quest for privacy and freedom. The machines no longer store or display images of your body - they store and display images of a generic body with the data received from you.
http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2013/01/tsa-abandons-nude-s... (the initial announcement)
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/tsa-completely-remo...
I dislike the TSA and government paternalism more than almost anyone, but we're getting caught up spreading misinformation and nonsense when we should be thinking about how to get our personal freedom back.
Re: Defeated
#316Oren is right. Our rights are being taken away one at a time. As an immigrant to America, I can see how the idea of "Freedom" has been so ingrained into the culture that most people simply refuse to believe that the government is taking it away from them. "But we are the Free Country!", they all yell. While this may have been a free country in the past, and may still carry the echoes of freedom, those echoes are fading quickly.
Re: Defeated
#317Earlier quoted context omitted.
I agree with you, though the longest wait I've had was about 15 minutes. My girlfriend has had about the same length, since they didn't have any women clowns at that station and had to call one from another station. The TSA clowns aren't there to make your life hell, they're there to do their useless jobs. Like any other position, sometimes the employees are bad at their jobs. I am confused about this, though: > ALSO…
You lose all credibility when you refer to TSA agents as "clowns"
Eh? What's the relationship between credibility and civility? He may be losing your respect, but he certainly loses no credibility. Still, it reminds me of what Vonnegut says in _Hocus Pocus_:
> Profanity and obscenity entitle people who don't want unpleasant information to close their ears and eyes to you
People will search for reasons to dismiss anything you say. Being utterly civil takes away the easy reasons. Vonnegut takes this to such extremes in the book that it becomes satirical, but taken at face value it is still meaningful.
As someone whose family is frequently stopped at airports and borders because of their Muslim names (the Christian-named half of my extended family universally makes it through, the ones with Muslim names universally have trouble, even when both travel together), I've learnt that the word 'damn' is near horrific but that hours of detention are okay.
Re: Defeated
#318There's a bigger point at play here, which is this: in modern American society, the real enemy of democracy isn't apathy, per se. It's convenience.
TSA lines are already a ridiculous inconvenience, and the prospect of additional stress -- or worse, of missing a flight -- just ads to fuel to the fire. So, faced with the choice between, say, a 30 minute line or a 45-60 minute line, most travelers will just say "fuck it" and submit to the scans.
It's not always practical to opt out, especially in extremely busy airports on extremely busy days. Nor, would I submit, is opting out a scalable solution. We're never going to convince n = enough people to opt out en masse, such that we'll make any real difference.
Instead, the solution is organization. It's protest. It's petitioning. Generally speaking, it's making a national stink of this issue. Not enough of an outcry has been rallied, by not enough people, and not at sufficient volume.
Re: Defeated
#319The terrorist won a long time ago. In particular in the US and England. Other countries (ironically) did not have such problems with terrorists, or how we call this people in germany: "citizens", "taxpayers", "neighbors"... ;)
May I remind you of the RAF( ), checkpoints manned by police armed with semi-automatic rifles and the use of dragnets in the late 70's and early 80's? Our hands aren't as clean as we would like to believe. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Army_Faction
And ? Did the terrorists won in germany ?
Did germany has a totalitarian monitoring state ? Or reject human rights ?
Re: Defeated
#320There is an extremely simple solution: leave. I've not lived in the US for almost two years now. I've only had to travel back twice in that time. Meanwhile, in the same time I've visited France, Belgium, the Netherlands, and Germany multiple times. None of those travel experiences were nearly as unpleasant or stressful as my two trips to the US. Furthermore, the technology communities that are growing up in these pla…
"There is an extremely simple solution: leave."
So to be clear you think it's simpler to leave the country rather than go through a machine?