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Defeated

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Re: Defeated

#291

Post by jpwagner »

pinaceae wrote: post #215
jballanc wrote: post #32

There is an extremely simple solution: leave. I've not lived in the US for almost two years now. I've only had to travel back twice in that time. Meanwhile, in the same time I've visited France, Belgium, the Netherlands, and Germany multiple times. None of those travel experiences were nearly as unpleasant or stressful as my two trips to the US. Furthermore, the technology communities that are growing up in these pla…

as someone who recently moved TO the US - you are delusional. as if there is a magic, fairy place that is freedom and liberty and pixies. Asia? good luck, the individual has awesome rights, try talking badly about the thai royalty for example. go on, please do. Europe? Just moved from there, great place. But if you're looking for the right to act out your individual freedom (which ends where it impacts the freedom of…

it's a shame that you draw a comparison between liberty and magic.

Re: Defeated

#292

Post by jmccree »

flexie wrote: post #151
rayiner wrote: post #131

I just don't get the deal with the millimeter wave scanners. Did everyone raise a fuss like this when airports had you walk through metal detectors? How is a millimeter wave scanner different than a high-tech metal detector? Aren't we always talking about how the law needs to "catch up to technology?" Don't get me wrong, I think the TSA is a huge waste of money and I hate being ordered around by flunkies who can't ge…

They have to walk through metal detectors to buy books? I thought it was only for dangerous places like schools and offices. I can't think of anywhere in Europe we have those except for American embassies, a few courthouses, some government buildings and airports. Anyone knows when this started in the US and when it got so widespread?

They are likely referring to the electronic article surveillance systems that many shops in the US use. They detect tags that are embedded in packaging, and now even inside products by the manufacturer. The only non-governmental metal detectors I've ever had to walk through are at major tourist spots and theme parks.

Re: Defeated

#293

Post by 3pt14159 »

pinaceae wrote: post #215
jballanc wrote: post #32

There is an extremely simple solution: leave. I've not lived in the US for almost two years now. I've only had to travel back twice in that time. Meanwhile, in the same time I've visited France, Belgium, the Netherlands, and Germany multiple times. None of those travel experiences were nearly as unpleasant or stressful as my two trips to the US. Furthermore, the technology communities that are growing up in these pla…

as someone who recently moved TO the US - you are delusional. as if there is a magic, fairy place that is freedom and liberty and pixies. Asia? good luck, the individual has awesome rights, try talking badly about the thai royalty for example. go on, please do. Europe? Just moved from there, great place. But if you're looking for the right to act out your individual freedom (which ends where it impacts the freedom of…

Just off the top of my head, countries that are both freer and less insane: Canada, The Netherlands, Norway, Iceland, New Zealand, Singapore, Estonia, Latvia, Switzerland.

Freer in terms of personal freedom, civil rights, economic freedom.

In the US you have:

1. Forced to sign up for the draft.

2. Your "Army Reserves" and "National Guard" DEPLOYED to fun places like Afghanistan on a rotating schedule. No they did not agree to it, reserves are meant to defend a country when it is attacked, not to be pulled into a regional conflicts. Canada for example, has reserves, but they arn't in Afghanistan unless they volunteer to.

3. Every call and email monitored.

4. A militarized police state.

5. Massive hidden intelligence budgets.

6. Drug sales by intelligence forces.

7. 5% of GDP just on the military, let alone "intelligence" and "security" (NSA / CIA / TSA / etc).

8. Private prisons with bribed judges.

9. 1% of men in jail, CURRENTLY (with more on parole).

10. 0.5% of women in jail.

11. Domestic drones.

12. Laws against using cryptography without registering it with the NSA.

13. The most aggressive fingerprint collection system out of any country in the world.

14. Unbearable licensing for alcohol, firearms, businesses, hair dressers (state dependent).

15. Project mockingbird (seriously wtf is the point of a "free press" if your own CIA has infiltrated it).

16. A do not fly list that has millions of people on it none of which can contest the reasons why. This is made worse since it was held up by the courts (under the guise that they can always take a train). In Canada we have less than a thousand people and there is a mechanism for challenging it.

America only feels free while you are there and under the radar.

Re: Defeated

#294

Post by scottlilly »

GFischer wrote: post #157
mosburger wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Extremely simple?" There's lots of reasons it isn't so simple for people. 1) Barriers to work and emigration 2) Language barriers - I know that learning a new language isn't impossible (I know a little Spanish but I'd hardly call myself fluent), but I speak only English fluently, which limits me to a handful of nations, many of which are nearly as bad as the United States (hey UK, how are those surveillance cameras?…

You're welcome here in Uruguay... but I think it's a case of "the grass is greener on the other side of the fence". And while we do have liberal emigration policies, the bureaucracy involved cannot be underestimated. There are another things going on that you will find violations of your privacy - Uruguay has a nationwide ID program with fingerprinting (and probably DNA in the near future). We don't have cameras or b…

You're 100% correct about the incredible amount of bureaucracy for getting residency in Uruguay. After almost a year of waiting, and being told it would probably be at least another six months to a year to have my residency completed, I gave up and moved to Paraguay.

Getting permanent residency in Paraguay was fairly simple. I completed it in about seven months (partially because I needed to wait for my FBI background check). Other people I know had theirs completed in four to six months.

I also find Paraguay to have less government intrusion than Uruguay. Not that Uruguay felt oppressive, but the Uruguayan government is certainly involved in more aspects of business, welfare, regulations, etc., than the Paraguayan government.

Most Paraguayans only speak Spanish, or Guarani (the native language). However, if you're working in the tech sector, it isn't unusual to find people who speak a decent amount of English.

Re: Defeated

#295

Post by [deleted] »

amirmc wrote: post #61
jballanc wrote: post #32

There is an extremely simple solution: leave. I've not lived in the US for almost two years now. I've only had to travel back twice in that time. Meanwhile, in the same time I've visited France, Belgium, the Netherlands, and Germany multiple times. None of those travel experiences were nearly as unpleasant or stressful as my two trips to the US. Furthermore, the technology communities that are growing up in these pla…

Airports are only a symptom of a wider problem and I see this as running away. Much like when a bear is chasing you, you only have to be faster than those around you. Eventually the bear will chase you again and you'll be the only one left. To make that a little more concrete, you can only keep moving while there are viable places to move to . Sure, that's probably fine for our lifetimes but we're handing on a legacy…

[deleted]

Re: Defeated

#296

Post by fixxer »

trekky1700 wrote: post #281
eloisius wrote: post #135

You probably put to much stock in the whole "I've never been through the imaging machines" bit. It's not about remaining opt-out puritan or something. Fight when you can. I hope op reads this, buried in all the other comments. Please, for the sake of everyone, dust yourself off and opt out again. It doesn't matter if you do it every time. I opt out every time I can, but there have been plenty of times when I don't. T…

Or take the train.

TSA is going there.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/06/us/tsa-expands-duties-beyo...

Re: Defeated

#297

Post by malka »

[deleted] wrote: post #201
eloisius wrote: post #135

You probably put to much stock in the whole "I've never been through the imaging machines" bit. It's not about remaining opt-out puritan or something. Fight when you can. I hope op reads this, buried in all the other comments. Please, for the sake of everyone, dust yourself off and opt out again. It doesn't matter if you do it every time. I opt out every time I can, but there have been plenty of times when I don't. T…

[deleted]

"be the change you want to see in the world" OP, you lost a battle, not the war.

Re: Defeated

#298

Post by pquerna »

DamnYuppie wrote: post #219
mosburger wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Extremely simple?" There's lots of reasons it isn't so simple for people. 1) Barriers to work and emigration 2) Language barriers - I know that learning a new language isn't impossible (I know a little Spanish but I'd hardly call myself fluent), but I speak only English fluently, which limits me to a handful of nations, many of which are nearly as bad as the United States (hey UK, how are those surveillance cameras?…

Everyone who is in the USA and is not a Native American had ancestors who left where they were from. Often not under ideal circumstances, there where no guaranteed jobs waiting for anyone over here, just the opportunity for something better.

Many of my ancestors immigrated to the Americas in the 17th or 18th century.

Best case I have something like 4th or 5th cousins in Europe. Not someone I can just drop into their lives.

Re: Defeated

#299

Post by websomniac »

orblivion wrote: post #265
eagsalazar2 wrote: post #125

"I won't be opting out again"? What? Give me a break. I fly weekly for work so I know the routine. 99% of the time the TSA agents are perfectly happy to do the pat down. I have had a few that have given me a hard time but then I've also had others come and apologize and emphasize that it is my right to opt-out. Keep opting out and next time someone gives you a hard time calmly ask for (1) a manager and (2) a comment…

> ALSO (jeez) don't send your stuff through until you go through! I have been told this repeatedly so most agents actually know this already but even the ones that won't prompt you to do it won't prevent it either. Wait, how do you do this? Do I wait holding my stuff until the assist comes up, and then make them wait as I put my things on the machine? Do I get to "cut in line" and put my stuff in front of everybody e…

Yes, in fact as parent has stated this is the standard procedure. I've have been yelled at and demeaned many times by these self entitled federal mall cops for this and many other non-issues.

They treat you like criminals.

Only two weeks ago as I flew from SFO to JFK, I was held up for twenty minutes before I even got a screening. Then the guys tells me he has found chemical traces on his gloves prompting a screening they refused to do in public.

With his supervisor present and giving me dirty looks, they turned my bags upside-down and grabbed my junk with their palms.

Luckily the plane I was flying on was delayed two hours from its previous destination or I would have missed my flight.

The kicker is, some other passenger is walking around the airport scot-free with the "chemical traces" they are supposedly looking for.

I get harassed about 50% of the time when I fly. I fly back and forth through the same airports every other month. I recognize these guys harassing me, I see them a dozen times a year.

It's because I have an Arabic last name and a hefty beard. These guys are racially profiling American citizens.

Oh yeah, after all of it, they always recite the canned "Sorry for any inconvenience, have a nice day" with a fake smile.

Well, this turned out to be a little longer than I had expected. At least the first sentence was relevant to your post =)

Re: Defeated

#300

Post by tootie »

jdavid wrote: post #253
tootie wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So invasive you'd rather have a guy grab your junk?

I like how uncomfortable the TSA guy feels about grabbing my junk, because that's how uncomfortable I feel about my constitutional rights being violated. It's a constant reminder to TSA staff that what they are doing is wrong.

The TSA guy has done it a thousand times and thinks nothing of it.
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