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Defeated

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251–260 of 445 posts

Re: Defeated

#251
post #148

I opt out mostly to make it as difficult for the screener as possible, not because I think it's particularly less of a violation of my privacy to get my nuts felt up vs. irradiated with low power mm wave. (if there were a "you can have a copy of your own scan" machine, I'd probably voluntarily go through mm wave for fun). If people opt out, it 1) ties up a TSA agent 2) makes a TSA agent do something moderately unplea…

> If people opt out, it 1) ties up a TSA agent Isn't this something that doesn't scale then? Author of this post is complaining of being "defeated" because no agent came to give him his pat down. What if it just so happens that a few people had opted out in a short window, and so their pat down guy was tied up? The more people follow this example on a given day, the longer your wait for the pat down will be.

It depends -- if you are in a hurry, it's going to hurt you more than it hurts TSA, but otherwise, it probably bothers them more. I've never had more than a very brief delay, though.

There's extra lulz for me because if I check a bag on a domestic flight it is essentially always because the bag contains a firearm. The red-tagged bags must fly with the passenger, and TSA has already had extended contact with me by that point (they search the bag containing the weapon in your presence, usually in a private room, etc.), so I think making me miss my flight at that point would cause them a lot of trouble without me even needing to prod.

Re: Defeated

#252
post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The rampant xenophobia in Japan is what keeps me from moving there. You mean even if I becomes a naturalized citizen (an ordeal in itself) that most places will still treat me like a foreigner? No thanks. The US is occupied by an enemy force that they supported and elected. Every time another basic human right is violated by the legislative and executive branch those cheer. Does it matter that drunk driving kills mor…

Japan isn't any more xenophobic than the US. I've lived seven years in Japan. Even if I were to get Japanese citizenship, I wouldn't identify myself culturally as Japanese (and neither would Japanese think of me as Japanese). Countries like the US separate cultural identity and citizenship, so having citizenship but still being seen as a foreigner might seem a bit strange at first. On the other hand, if I was to go t…

> For instance, as a white guy, I could never be treated as an African American, no matter how much I wanted to be or tried.

This hasn't stopped a great many white guys from trying!

Re: Defeated

#253
post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not a metal detector, it's a system designed to scan for tagged items. My problem with the scanners is that they are invasive AND ineffective. They aren't protecting me, but they do train me to complacently subject myself as an innocent, not-charged-with-a-crime citizen to pre-emptive searches. That's just not alright by me.

So invasive you'd rather have a guy grab your junk?

I like how uncomfortable the TSA guy feels about grabbing my junk, because that's how uncomfortable I feel about my constitutional rights being violated. It's a constant reminder to TSA staff that what they are doing is wrong.

Re: Defeated

#254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not a metal detector, it's a system designed to scan for tagged items. My problem with the scanners is that they are invasive AND ineffective. They aren't protecting me, but they do train me to complacently subject myself as an innocent, not-charged-with-a-crime citizen to pre-emptive searches. That's just not alright by me.

I don't like them either, but why are they invasive?

A few reasons:

- They actively image your naked body. Metal detectors do not.

- They record said image of our naked body for an indefinite amount of time. Metal detectors do not.

- A human views the image of your naked body, and makes a subjective assessment of whether or not something suspicious has been detected, based on a wide range of parameters. A metal detector is a simple on/off detection based on an extremely narrow range of parameters.

In short, they are invasive because a human is involved. Let's not forget the cases (now rarer) of TSA agents guffawing at each others' penis sizes, or deliberately checking out women in the scanner, etc. My objections against the scanners would be greatly nullified if:

- All decision making is made via computer. No human ever sees the image.

- All images are immediately discarded. No record of the scan exists except the result.

- The parameters of detection are open and transparent.

The invasiveness of the scan has less to do with the scan and more to do with the tremendous opportunity for abuse it represents - both at the low level (individual TSA agents) and high level (as a matter of policy).

Re: Defeated

#255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For what possible fucking reason! This is foolishness or possibly a form of mental illness.

I hadn't thought about it before you asked, but this would be a perfect way to build up detailed information for biometric databases. You'd then use that with lower-fidelity sources, like video cameras. You've got head shape, hand shape, height, shoulder width, BMI, and length of every major body segment. From there you can calculate all sorts of ratios to apply to people, and I'd bet you could make a pretty good gue…

They could see you from a satellite so you should never go out on sunny days? Where does it end?

Re: Defeated

#256
I've been through once, because they found some substance on my person and wouldn't let me on my flight otherwise (though they were very polite in my instance). I opted out before that and still have since. They wore you out, just keep wearing them out. Call the ACLU since they made you wait that long. Continue to opt out.

You lost your "never been through the machine" badge. That sucked for me too, well, let's get over it. (At least it wasn't a backscatter, right?) This is really about raising awareness, as it were, right? Having lost one time doesn't really change that. By that measure we already "lose" millions of times because everybody else goes through those machines.

Re: Defeated

#257

IMO This is silly. Yeah I understand why we don't want the NSA looking into all our emails and phonecalls etc... But its a security check at an airport... This has to be one of the silliest things to get wound up about.

It's a strip search. You don't have a problem with being strip searched?

>It's a strip search.

No, it isn't. When you're in a back room with your clothes on the floor, being asked to lift your scrotum and spread your butt cheeks, you're being strip searched.

The MM machines are annoying, invasive and potentially harmful, but saying it's analogous to being strip searched doesn't help the cause. You'll believe me if you're ever actually strip searched. It's a far worse violation.

Re: Defeated

#258
A population that believes this strongly in liberties then surrenders after a single 30 minute inconvenience is a greater danger to liberty than the TSA.

Seriously, you have shown you are willing to make zero sacrifice in fighting for your rights. You don't believe in anything. This is the problem with armchair libertarians. You sound tough them surrender at the first sign of difficulty. This does more harm than good.

Re: Defeated

#259

"I won't be opting out again"? What? Give me a break. I fly weekly for work so I know the routine. 99% of the time the TSA agents are perfectly happy to do the pat down. I have had a few that have given me a hard time but then I've also had others come and apologize and emphasize that it is my right to opt-out. Keep opting out and next time someone gives you a hard time calmly ask for (1) a manager and (2) a comment…

I agree with you, though the longest wait I've had was about 15 minutes. My girlfriend has had about the same length, since they didn't have any women clowns at that station and had to call one from another station. The TSA clowns aren't there to make your life hell, they're there to do their useless jobs. Like any other position, sometimes the employees are bad at their jobs. I am confused about this, though: > ALSO…

You lose all credibility when you refer to TSA agents as "clowns"

Re: Defeated

#260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, so maybe "extremely" was a bit much. In my defense I think leaving is much simpler at this point than hoping that the current course of politics and public sentiment in the US will change. > 1) Barriers to work and emigration While real, they can be overcome. Also, I'd wager there will be something of a domino effect -- once other countries begin to catch on that well educated, highly trained Americans are lookin…

I think you need to also drop the "simple" part as well. >> 1) Barriers to work and emigration > While real, they can be overcome. Also, I'd wager there will be something of a domino effect This is a very non-trivial process so your casual response is a bit hard to swallow. And "domino effect" - I don't think there will be a vast tide of of people, but whatever. >> 2) Language barriers > One, you'd be amazed how much…

>On a final note. I'm Irish and lived (US) here 12 years. My family and I can move to Ireland at any time without worry for some of the larger barriers; visa and language.

An aside, but why did you move from Ireland to the US? I'm semi-seriously considering moving to the UK or Ireland, not out of any "argh america is literally hitler, i'm out" impetus, but to be closer to my girlfriend's family and for adventure.

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