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Defeated

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Re: Defeated

#141

Post by anExcitedBeast »

jballanc wrote: post #32

There is an extremely simple solution: leave. I've not lived in the US for almost two years now. I've only had to travel back twice in that time. Meanwhile, in the same time I've visited France, Belgium, the Netherlands, and Germany multiple times. None of those travel experiences were nearly as unpleasant or stressful as my two trips to the US. Furthermore, the technology communities that are growing up in these pla…

I know hacker news doesn't generally appreciate comments like this, but moving to Europe is the last thing you want to do if your objection is based on the political theory of individual liberty. Practically speaking the US is losing respect for personal freedom, but at least there's a legal framework and founding ideal for it here.

Re: Defeated

#143

Post by Zigurd »

flexie wrote: post #24

Airline security measures is not only a threat to civil liberties, it's also a threat to the airline industry. On short distances ( But there are powerful interests that like to keep it this way. Airport owners make money turning airports into shopping malls because travellers are forced to wait there. Governments use airport security as job creation schemes. It's a leech sucking on resources all of us need.

Self-driving cars will kill air travel for distances shorter than an overnight car trip. Or we will suddenly find that airlines' customers are not a security risk and deserve good service throughout their trip.

Re: Defeated

#144

Post by Derbasti »

bane wrote: post #106
nodata wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It introduces a different mentality: you have to do something other than shop.

As an international traveler that for some reason ends up arriving in Germany Sundays, let me assure you, it sucks to high heaven that I can't get something to eat or drink easily.

Restaurants, bakeries, gas stations, and everything at airports or train stations is open on sundays in Germany.

Re: Defeated

#145

Post by this_user »

progx wrote: post #47

The terrorist won a long time ago. In particular in the US and England. Other countries (ironically) did not have such problems with terrorists, or how we call this people in germany: "citizens", "taxpayers", "neighbors"... ;)

May I remind you of the RAF(), checkpoints manned by police armed with semi-automatic rifles and the use of dragnets in the late 70's and early 80's? Our hands aren't as clean as we would like to believe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Army_Faction

Re: Defeated

#146

Post by SkyMarshal »

raverbashing wrote: post #50
jballanc wrote: post #32

There is an extremely simple solution: leave. I've not lived in the US for almost two years now. I've only had to travel back twice in that time. Meanwhile, in the same time I've visited France, Belgium, the Netherlands, and Germany multiple times. None of those travel experiences were nearly as unpleasant or stressful as my two trips to the US. Furthermore, the technology communities that are growing up in these pla…

I agree with the general spirit of your post, however: Amsterdam Schipol has (a lot of) scanning machines as well. Germany has more freedom in certain areas and less freedom in others. (you can't take your empty bottles to the recycling bins on Sunday for example)

> you can't take your empty bottles to the recycling bins on Sunday for example

I don't know Germany but it seems you're suggesting Germany curtails freedom in the name of economic efficiency, but not as much as the US for "national security" and what not.

Re: Defeated

#147

Post by imsofuture »

bluedino wrote: post #115

Isn't being felt up much more of a violation of your rights than going through an x-ray machine? My nutso-girlfriend refuses to go through them because of OMG CANCER, so instead I end up sitting around for a half hour while they manually search her. It's such a pain in the ass.

Absolutely it's a violation of my rights to be patted down. I choose that option so that other people may actually see and consider the rights that they're so casually giving up walking through the scanner.

Re: Defeated

#148

Post by rdl »

I opt out mostly to make it as difficult for the screener as possible, not because I think it's particularly less of a violation of my privacy to get my nuts felt up vs. irradiated with low power mm wave. (if there were a "you can have a copy of your own scan" machine, I'd probably voluntarily go through mm wave for fun).

If people opt out, it 1) ties up a TSA agent 2) makes a TSA agent do something moderately unpleasant 3) serves as an example for others in the screening line 4) makes me feel like I'm doing something. OTOH I mostly just don't fly unless it's >800 miles.

I've always had the TSA people screening me be unfailingly polite, if a bit incompetent (not running me through the magnetometer if they're doing a hand screening actually lowers overall security vs. weapons; it wouldn't be terribly difficult to get a disassembled handgun through the hand screening.)

I used to work on military bases with a much more invasive screening (for vehicles; I was exempt personally but my vehicle wasn't). There, there was mostly a legitimate threat (although the biggest screening was in Kuwait, which had ~no risk; it was just a way to keep their combat zone pay. In Iraq, they just asked me to unload my weapon before walking on base, and in 2003/2004, just being white was enough to get on base, no ID needed.)

Re: Defeated

#149

Post by eloisius »

ohwp wrote: post #99
jballanc wrote: post #32

There is an extremely simple solution: leave. I've not lived in the US for almost two years now. I've only had to travel back twice in that time. Meanwhile, in the same time I've visited France, Belgium, the Netherlands, and Germany multiple times. None of those travel experiences were nearly as unpleasant or stressful as my two trips to the US. Furthermore, the technology communities that are growing up in these pla…

Maybe even simpler: stay, don't fly. The best solutions would be that all passengers refuse to take the scan.

That's not a solution, unless you mean 'never go anywhere.' TSA is expanding into more modes of transportation [1]. Unchecked, you'd soon see them at every train station, bus terminal and eventually intervals of the interstate.

[1]: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/06/us/tsa-expands-duties-beyo...

Re: Defeated

#150

Post by Thrymr »

bluedino wrote: post #115

Isn't being felt up much more of a violation of your rights than going through an x-ray machine? My nutso-girlfriend refuses to go through them because of OMG CANCER, so instead I end up sitting around for a half hour while they manually search her. It's such a pain in the ass.

Exposing yourself to regular doses of unnecessary x-rays is probably not a great idea. The human [ed.: backscatter] x-ray machines are mostly phased out already, though. Millimeter wave (the most common scanners now) is non-ionizing radiation and does not have any known association with an increased risk of cancer.
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