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Defeated

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Re: Defeated

#91

Post by sbarre »

VMG wrote: post #59
raverbashing wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with the general spirit of your post, however: Amsterdam Schipol has (a lot of) scanning machines as well. Germany has more freedom in certain areas and less freedom in others. (you can't take your empty bottles to the recycling bins on Sunday for example)

of all the things bothering me about Germany, this is not one of them. More the fact that nearly all shops close at 8pm and everything is closed on sunday.

You're basically describing what it was like for me as a child in Canada in the late 70s and early 80s..

Stores were closed on Sundays, things closed earlier in the evenings.. We survived, we planned ahead..

Now everything is open all the time. Malls are open on Christmas day, even on New Year's Day!

When do people have time to spend time together, to relax, to not be consumers but be people?

I kind of wish stores were still closed on Sundays..

Re: Defeated

#92

Post by jacquesm »

icecreampain wrote: post #76
prawn wrote: post #39

The terrorists have won. I don't think the terrorists won, they just provided the push. The commercial interests and their lobbyists have won. And by that, I mean they continue to win.

As soon as 9/11 happened (I'm too young to have been aware of the Troubles), I argued, and continue to argue to this day: after a terrorist attack, as soon as _anything_ is changed, anything at all for any reason, the terrorists have won. And now an exercise for the reader: do I mean the arabs, or do I mean the government and megacorporations and their lobbyists?

> As soon as 9/11 happened (I'm too young to have been aware of the Troubles), I argued, and continue to argue to this day: after a terrorist attack, as soon as _anything_ is changed, anything at all for any reason, the terrorists have won.

Cockpit door strengthening would have been an acceptable change without declaring the terrorists had won. Beyond that I'm with you.

Re: Defeated

#93

Post by sbarre »

reginaldjcooper wrote: post #63
cbr wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a lot of able-bodied people start doing this then the TSA may start giving people who actually can't raise their arms a hard time.

I would love to see the resulting class action lawsuit from that.

America: lawyers!

Re: Defeated

#94

Post by devx »

flexie wrote: post #24

Airline security measures is not only a threat to civil liberties, it's also a threat to the airline industry. On short distances ( But there are powerful interests that like to keep it this way. Airport owners make money turning airports into shopping malls because travellers are forced to wait there. Governments use airport security as job creation schemes. It's a leech sucking on resources all of us need.

Don't worry. TSA is trying its best to expand to other means of transportation, too. How else are they going to keep asking for bigger and bigger budgets? That whole "airline-only" thing is pretty limiting.

Re: Defeated

#95

Post by jacquesm »

mosburger wrote: post #89
jballanc wrote: post #32

There is an extremely simple solution: leave. I've not lived in the US for almost two years now. I've only had to travel back twice in that time. Meanwhile, in the same time I've visited France, Belgium, the Netherlands, and Germany multiple times. None of those travel experiences were nearly as unpleasant or stressful as my two trips to the US. Furthermore, the technology communities that are growing up in these pla…

"Extremely simple?" There's lots of reasons it isn't so simple for people. 1) Barriers to work and emigration 2) Language barriers - I know that learning a new language isn't impossible (I know a little Spanish but I'd hardly call myself fluent), but I speak only English fluently, which limits me to a handful of nations, many of which are nearly as bad as the United States (hey UK, how are those surveillance cameras?…

1) but everybody can go somewhere

2) immersion will do wonders, and yes, we do speak English in other countries

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysg_FoWOue8

3) That's a tough one. Emigration isn't for everybody and this is one of the main reasons.

Re: Defeated

#96

Post by joezydeco »

raverbashing wrote: post #50
jballanc wrote: post #32

There is an extremely simple solution: leave. I've not lived in the US for almost two years now. I've only had to travel back twice in that time. Meanwhile, in the same time I've visited France, Belgium, the Netherlands, and Germany multiple times. None of those travel experiences were nearly as unpleasant or stressful as my two trips to the US. Furthermore, the technology communities that are growing up in these pla…

I agree with the general spirit of your post, however: Amsterdam Schipol has (a lot of) scanning machines as well. Germany has more freedom in certain areas and less freedom in others. (you can't take your empty bottles to the recycling bins on Sunday for example)

As someone that lives in a neighborhood (in the USA) where leaf blowers are being used constantly all weekend long, I don't see this as a suppression of freedom at all.

Re: Defeated

#98

Post by annnnd »

aestra wrote: post #87
prawn wrote: post #39

The terrorists have won. I don't think the terrorists won, they just provided the push. The commercial interests and their lobbyists have won. And by that, I mean they continue to win.

No, the author is correct. The terrorist have won. ter·ror·ism [ter-uh-riz-uhm] noun 1. the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, especially for political purposes. 2. the state of fear and submission produced by terrorism or terrorization. co·erce [koh-urs] verb (used with object), co·erced, co·erc·ing. 1. to compel by force, intimidation, or authority, especially without regard for individual desire…

Interestingly, your explanation shows that in this case the term "terrorists" can (should?) be applied to "commercial interests and their lobbyists", as the parent suggested.

Or is that what you were saying too?

Re: Defeated

#99

Post by ohwp »

jballanc wrote: post #32

There is an extremely simple solution: leave. I've not lived in the US for almost two years now. I've only had to travel back twice in that time. Meanwhile, in the same time I've visited France, Belgium, the Netherlands, and Germany multiple times. None of those travel experiences were nearly as unpleasant or stressful as my two trips to the US. Furthermore, the technology communities that are growing up in these pla…

Maybe even simpler: stay, don't fly.

The best solutions would be that all passengers refuse to take the scan.

Re: Defeated

#100

Post by kghose »

Sorry, but I'm going to be the token "sheeple" here. Did you make such a fuss when you had to go through metal detectors? Did you make such a fuss when you were wanded? Did you make a fuss when you were carded (at the bar, or at the airport?)

I think we should protest when the TSA is unprofessional and does not monitor their people and they do unprofessional things, (like circulate photos or make fun of people) but protesting the scanners themselves is like going to a hospital and refusing an MRI because hospital staff may act unprofessional and look into your medical records.

The scanners are a detection technology. They are the next generation metal detectors as are the "sniffers". At some point people will "hack" them, just like metal detectors are useless now and we will need the next thing, but they are just a technology.

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