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Defeated

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Re: Defeated

#31

Post by honzzz »

krichman wrote: post #16

Please don't give up. We all have to value freedom more than to abandon it after half an hour apart from a laptop if we want to be free.

I think you are right but I also understand OP - it's way too easy to choose the easier path. The older I get the more I admire people like Vaclav Havel and others who would rather spend years in jail instead of just 'sucking it up'... and the more I doubt I would be able to withstand even much smaller pressure - it must have been much harder than I imagined when I was 16.

Re: Defeated

#32

Post by jballanc »

There is an extremely simple solution: leave.

I've not lived in the US for almost two years now. I've only had to travel back twice in that time. Meanwhile, in the same time I've visited France, Belgium, the Netherlands, and Germany multiple times. None of those travel experiences were nearly as unpleasant or stressful as my two trips to the US. Furthermore, the technology communities that are growing up in these places have a vigor and sense of excitement that rivals or even surpasses anything you'll find in Silicon Valley.

Re: Defeated

#33

Post by wilperkins »

RivieraKid wrote: post #26
wilperkins wrote: post #8

I had a similar experience when traveling to the US with my German girlfriend (I am from the US). What I found even more disappointing is the way that other passengers negatively reacted to her choosing to opt-out and wait for the "pat down of shame". I would be happy to see in the US a better public awareness of the amount of personal rights that we're forfeiting by simply passing through an airport.

What do you mean by "reacted negatively"?

The standard head shakes of disapproval. Comments like "she should just go through the scanner like everyone else" or "look at her trying to create a problem". After the first couple walked by and had such a reaction, I just ignored it. But then when it repeatedly happened, I wondered why so many people were bothered enough by her decision that they have to stop and make a snarky comment about it.

Re: Defeated

#34

Post by singold »

soheil wrote: post #29

"three or four of them(passengers) had induced mini-panic-attacks by lifting or moving the tray containing my laptop" when are we going to learn to assume other people are probably somewhat rational beings and not crazy zombies walking around?

Maybe when we stop seeing everyone as potential 'terrorists' that should be undressed to prove they don't carry anything dangerous to the rest of us.

Also, there are really a lots of crazy zombies walking around

Re: Defeated

#35

Post by jpalomaki »

ajb wrote: post #13
Joeboy wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the lessons of the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment was that people were much more likely to rebel if they weren't alone in doing so.

Maybe an 'anyone opting out on my flight' app would be a good idea. Although writing one would probably get you put on the terrorist watch list.

Offline version could be to wear a certain pin to indicate one is a member of the "opt-out movement"

http://www.pinmart.com/stock-pins-awareness.aspx

Re: Defeated

#36

Post by valisystem »

RivieraKid wrote: post #26
wilperkins wrote: post #8

I had a similar experience when traveling to the US with my German girlfriend (I am from the US). What I found even more disappointing is the way that other passengers negatively reacted to her choosing to opt-out and wait for the "pat down of shame". I would be happy to see in the US a better public awareness of the amount of personal rights that we're forfeiting by simply passing through an airport.

What do you mean by "reacted negatively"?

Frowns and interrogative looks I guess. When someone does not act as the norm in situations you are expected to, people just reacts negatively, since reacting positively requires to question yourself and make a decision whether you endorse or not a behavior different than yours.

It's way more easier to dismiss self questioning and jump to the disapproval of non conform behavior, the one that everyone has already decided to follow (willfully or not).

Re: Defeated

#38

Post by DanBC »

josscrowcroft wrote: post #23

This happened to me at Heathrow in London, except there's no option to "opt-out". You either do it, or you don't fly. It's randomly selected, so although I triggered no safety protocols, I was picked out for backscatter. I was a hair's width from turning around and flying from Gatwick instead at a few hundred bucks cost (nothing compared to observing my rights) - but the engagement was too important.

I guess that refusing the scan turns the encounter from random into 'suspicious person', giving them "reasonable grounds" to do all sorts of interrogation.

Re: Defeated

#39

Post by prawn »

The terrorists have won.

I don't think the terrorists won, they just provided the push. The commercial interests and their lobbyists have won. And by that, I mean they continue to win.

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