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Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer to retire within 12 months

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Re: Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer to retire within 12 months

#751

Post by Dewie »

omnipath wrote: post #750
Dewie wrote: post #744

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes, and how many of your family and friends had mp3 players before iPods? I don't know. But mp3 players were definitely something people knew about before iPod's (at least the kids, can't speak for the adults at the time). Some even got those mp3 players with 128 MB, enough to cram two albums into. I didn't feel it was worth it before 512 MB, at the least. Back when I was in the market for a good (gigabits of stor…

> I don't know. But mp3 players were definitely something people knew about before iPod's (at least the kids, can't speak for the adults at the time). Some even got those mp3 players with 128 MB, enough to cram two albums into. I didn't feel it was worth it before 512 MB, at the least. I can tell you right now, that unless they were very technical, most adults didn't have mp3 players and weren't interested in them. B…

> I can tell you right now, that unless they were very technical, most adults didn't have mp3 players and weren't interested in them. Because they didn't even have mp3 files. Don't forget, very often back then, you had to specifically install programs, like winamp, instead of Windows Media Player or Real Player to rip CDs to the mp3 format.

That's interesting. I guess I only dealt with kids who downloaded music for their mp3 players, and whatever CD's they had stayed in their CD players.

> You know why Windows 98 and above has AutoPlay? Because it wasn't simple enough for most of the public to just insert a media type device (CD/DVD/Flash type device) and just have the user manually start it.

Windows will also ask if you want to open an inserted mp3 device as a folder when you plug it in.

> Technically, streaming services has existed since 1995, when Real was selling their Helix servers, and started streaming media themselves sometime in 1997-1998ish.

Do you really want to emphasize who was first out with streaming? Hasn't your point all along been that Apple, while not inventing mp3 players, made it mainstream? ;P

> Spotify only works because the music industry couldn't do it themselves, and wanted other streams of revenue online other than Apple and Pandora

Spotify was a thing in my part of the world before Pandora. In fact it's only on the Internet that I've heard of people using Pandora.

Re: Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer to retire within 12 months

#752

Post by omnipath »

Dewie wrote: post #751
omnipath wrote: post #750

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't know. But mp3 players were definitely something people knew about before iPod's (at least the kids, can't speak for the adults at the time). Some even got those mp3 players with 128 MB, enough to cram two albums into. I didn't feel it was worth it before 512 MB, at the least. I can tell you right now, that unless they were very technical, most adults didn't have mp3 players and weren't interested in them. B…

> I can tell you right now, that unless they were very technical, most adults didn't have mp3 players and weren't interested in them. Because they didn't even have mp3 files. Don't forget, very often back then, you had to specifically install programs, like winamp, instead of Windows Media Player or Real Player to rip CDs to the mp3 format. That's interesting. I guess I only dealt with kids who downloaded music for t…

> Windows will also ask if you want to open an inserted mp3 device as a folder when you plug it in.

When Windows does that, it's running a service called Autoplay. What I'm saying, is that before Windows 98SE, users had to manually open up inserted media, and enough of them had problems with it, that Microsoft included Autoplay ever since with Windows.

> Do you really want to emphasize who was first out with streaming? Hasn't your point all along been that Apple, while not inventing mp3 players, made it mainstream? ;P

Streaming has nothing to do with mp3 players. Even today, Apple doesn't do streaming. It's only going to be on the new IOS 7 where that even starts to be an option. Mp3 players is basically a dead market. The point I was trying to make was that Spotify/Streaming is only becoming a viable solution because Internet speeds and 4g networks are fast enough to stream at high rates. Unless I'm missing something, nothing Spotify is doing is truly unique, other than perhaps working in far more places globally than any other type of service before.

Re: Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer to retire within 12 months

#753

Post by bborud »

BrandonM wrote: post #530
kjhughes wrote: post #61

What were the key Ballmer era highlights? == Negatives == * Clashes with Gates during CEO transition of power: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121261241035146237.html * Developer relations / motivational speaking (thanks mathattack): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvsboPUjrGc * Employee retention (thanks JonnieCache, Ziomislaw): http://www.smh.com.au/news/technology/microsoft-ceo-im-going... * Windows Phone: http://…

What about Microsoft developing some of the best enterprise programming tools in the world? I don't use any of the following, but I have to admit that they are (or at one time were) best-in-class is basically all of them: * C#, F#, and all of .NET * Visual Studio * SQL Server * DirectX * ActiveX[1] [1] ActiveX is not the best technology, but it paved the way for the AJAX programming that everyone does today.

Imagine if they hadn't been hell bent on only releasing those tools for Windows. Imagine if they had made them cross platform.

Their programming tools may be great. But I will never care. Because I'd rather hit myself with a stick than use Windows.

Re: Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer to retire within 12 months

#754

Post by dchichkov »

mthoms wrote: post #742
dragonbonheur wrote: post #731

Earlier quoted context omitted.

8 year olds used to put together and modify games in BASIC. Microsoft BASIC. How low we've fallen...

Are you saying there's less 8 year old programmers now than there used to be? That's just silly.

Yep. All the good once are stuck playing *craft games.

Find a modern 8-year old, who understand PC circuitry (at analog and digital level), seen manufacturing processes, can re-solder components, can write C/assembly, can develop basic useful applications (like, say MS Paint). I bet you could easily find one like that, back in 70s-90s, particularly here in the silicon valley. Now - I'm not so sure.

Re: Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer to retire within 12 months

#755

Post by Dewie »

omnipath wrote: post #752
Dewie wrote: post #751

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can tell you right now, that unless they were very technical, most adults didn't have mp3 players and weren't interested in them. Because they didn't even have mp3 files. Don't forget, very often back then, you had to specifically install programs, like winamp, instead of Windows Media Player or Real Player to rip CDs to the mp3 format. That's interesting. I guess I only dealt with kids who downloaded music for t…

> Windows will also ask if you want to open an inserted mp3 device as a folder when you plug it in. When Windows does that, it's running a service called Autoplay. What I'm saying, is that before Windows 98SE, users had to manually open up inserted media, and enough of them had problems with it, that Microsoft included Autoplay ever since with Windows. > Do you really want to emphasize who was first out with streamin…

> Streaming has nothing to do with mp3 players.

No, but I was saying that mp3 players and Apple are analogous to streaming and Spotify; Apple didn't invent but helped make mp3 players popular, and Spotify didn't invent music streaming but helped make it popular.

Re: Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer to retire within 12 months

#756

Post by PhasmaFelis »

nl wrote: post #328
fauigerzigerk wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that he will probably not be remembered for having more than doubled revenue and almost tripled profits. He will not be remembered for transforming Microsoft into one of the most important enterprise software companies. Not for introducing .NET, C# or Kinect either. All of that will be forgotten. He will be remembered for missing mobile. He will also be remembered for caring a lot about developers and about d…

It's hard to disagree with sarcasm on the internet. But in this case you are absolutely correct. Microsoft used to control the future of computing. Now they are yet another enterprise software company with no apparent mission except to make money. The lay somewhere on a continuum with IBM, Oracle, SAP all the way through to companies like CA. At one end of that spectrum they do research and produce software that peop…

"Microsoft used to control the future of computing. Now they are yet another enterprise software company with no apparent mission except to make money."

Heh. You really think any successful tech company has ever had a mission besides making money? Some of them talk big in their first few years, but they never follow through and they get embarrassed and try to sweep it under the rug pretty quick. Remember when the RealPlayer company was called Progressive Networks, because it was supposed to "provide a distribution channel for politically progressive content"? Remember "don't be evil"?

Re: Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer to retire within 12 months

#757

Post by mthoms »

dchichkov wrote: post #754
mthoms wrote: post #742

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you saying there's less 8 year old programmers now than there used to be? That's just silly.

Yep. All the good once are stuck playing *craft games. Find a modern 8-year old, who understand PC circuitry (at analog and digital level), seen manufacturing processes, can re-solder components, can write C/assembly, can develop basic useful applications (like, say MS Paint). I bet you could easily find one like that, back in 70s-90s, particularly here in the silicon valley. Now - I'm not so sure.

I'm going to call you on that. First for moving the goal posts and second for generalizing without any backup whatsoever.

From "Basic -> C/assembly"? Wow. That escalated quickly.

Re: Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer to retire within 12 months

#758

Post by Pxtl »

RyanMcGreal wrote: post #622
Pxtl wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but with C# we got ASP.Net web-forms. Holy crap what a technological boondoggle. In general, MS seems to have serious ADD under Ballmer. They introduce massive thundering huge frameworks every other year as some spectacularly big deal, and then drop them soon after. You ever noticed how every Office and Visual Studio version has a completely new suite of program icons? Are they deliberately trying to hurt the us…

Joel Spolsky's classic 2004 essay on Microsoft resonates as strongly as ever. He contrasts what he calls the Raymond Chan camp , i.e. maintain the integrity of the API at all costs, with what he calls the MSDN Magazine camp : > The MSDN Magazine Camp is always trying to convince you to use new and complicated external technology like COM+, MSMQ, MSDE, Microsoft Office, Internet Explorer and its components, MSXML, Dir…

Funny, I see the .NET framework as a microcosm of Spolsky's criticism. The core C# language is fantastic - imho, it eclipsed Java at v2.0, C# 3 caught up with the popular OSS languages (Python et al) and since then some fantastic concurrency features have been added. But at the same time, almost every edition has completely thrown out the database library and started from scratch. Ditto remote execution. Serialization has done similar dances. Microsoft has written one great language and like 5 mediocre complete frameworks for every subject under the sun.

Re: Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer to retire within 12 months

#759

Post by scholia »

marcosdumay wrote: post #638
criley2 wrote: post #556

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"It was a shitty period. There was a sense of futility to building software. You could build small software, but as soon as you reached a certain scale, particularly if you were a platform company, Microsoft would decide that they'd like to take your revenue, so they'd box your software out of their operating system with incompatibilities, launch their own competitor, and eat your lunch." Sounds like Apple and the 00…

Except that Apple controls around 6% of the desktop PCs and 20% of the mobile PCs. MS controlled 99% of the PCs at the time, and I'm rounding it down.

At one time, IBM controlled around 70% of the whole IT business, probably more. Mainframes, minis, comms, switchboards, typewriters. IBM even ran its own bank (IBM Credit Corp).

Microsoft happened to steal a very small part of IBM's monopoly, which got bigger over time, but IBM's revenues are still bigger than Microsoft's even 32 years later. (And IBM has been spinning off or selling whole businesses along the way, eg the PC business to Lenovo; spinning off Lexmark).

I was talking to one US corporate IT manager who said IBM was still a third of his budget cf 3% for Microsoft.

Big picture: Microsoft's monopoly has always been much smaller and less powerful than the IBM monopoly used to be. However, in time, all tech monopolies tend to get largely undone by new technologies.

Re: Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer to retire within 12 months

#760

Post by scholia »

pjmlp wrote: post #657
erikpukinskis wrote: post #482

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I guess I meant to include both Windows and Office in that statement. Samba, WordPerfect, and Netscape are good examples. Although in the case of Netscape, they just coerced all of the OEMs not to include it.

However, many like WordPerfect were just doing dumb business decisions that led them out of business. http://www.wordplace.com/ap/ Microsoft did not have to do much with this type of competition.

Netscape also put itself out of business by arrogance and making dumb decisions, plus some very poor programming.
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