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Why Aren't There More Women Programmers?

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Re: Why Aren't There More Women Programmers?

#71

Post by wpietri »

georgiecasey wrote: post #42
wpietri wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are a looking for a name for that feeling, it's "entitled". As in, "As a guy, I am entitled not to be bothered by the problems women have getting into programming." To which I say: so what? Does it all have to be about you? Me, I have a cousin. She's 7. At the family reunion, she saw me using a screwdriver to take something apart. She immediately elbowed her way into the seat next to me, and politely insisted…

jesus that was an angry reply! my comment had nothing to do with the subject matter and everything to do with how frequently it is talked about here and in the 'community', with the same points and round-about discussion

So it's just coincidence that, out of all the common topics on HN, this is the only one you've complained about?

The reason some of us talk about it is that it's important to us. Just like every article here. Do you complain about every post on HN that isn't personally important to you? No, you skim on by. Why would you click through and comment negatively on this one? Because you want us to stop talking about it. You might ask yourself why.

Re: Why Aren't There More Women Programmers?

#72

Post by wpietri »

cousin_it wrote: post #26
wpietri wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are a looking for a name for that feeling, it's "entitled". As in, "As a guy, I am entitled not to be bothered by the problems women have getting into programming." To which I say: so what? Does it all have to be about you? Me, I have a cousin. She's 7. At the family reunion, she saw me using a screwdriver to take something apart. She immediately elbowed her way into the seat next to me, and politely insisted…

If you want to prove that fewer women than men become programmers because of obstacles, it's not enough to point out the obstacles faced by women, you also need to argue that the obstacles faced by men are less severe. I think you'll have a hard time arguing that, considering how nerdy guys are treated in school by both girls and other guys. Girls who go into programming don't take such a big hit in attractiveness.

Why would I have to prove it?

Given that "fewer women become X because of societal obstacles" has been proven true for many professions over the last couple of centuries, I think the burden of proof is on somebody who wants to claim that programming is some strange special exemption.

Re: Why Aren't There More Women Programmers?

#73

Post by cousin_it »

wpietri wrote: post #72
cousin_it wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to prove that fewer women than men become programmers because of obstacles, it's not enough to point out the obstacles faced by women, you also need to argue that the obstacles faced by men are less severe. I think you'll have a hard time arguing that, considering how nerdy guys are treated in school by both girls and other guys. Girls who go into programming don't take such a big hit in attractiveness.

Why would I have to prove it? Given that "fewer women become X because of societal obstacles" has been proven true for many professions over the last couple of centuries, I think the burden of proof is on somebody who wants to claim that programming is some strange special exemption.

I don't think programming is an exception, it's probably similar to many other jobs where we haven't proved that societal obstacles are the reason.

Re: Why Aren't There More Women Programmers?

#74

Post by wpietri »

joyeuse6701 wrote: post #28
wpietri wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are a looking for a name for that feeling, it's "entitled". As in, "As a guy, I am entitled not to be bothered by the problems women have getting into programming." To which I say: so what? Does it all have to be about you? Me, I have a cousin. She's 7. At the family reunion, she saw me using a screwdriver to take something apart. She immediately elbowed her way into the seat next to me, and politely insisted…

Given how many times this has come up on this site, it is becoming more akin to beating a dead horse and may serve to simply annoy and hurt the 'women in tech movement' if you will, than help it. I have yet to see proof of causation between male social tendencies in tech industry and a barrier to entry for women in tech industries. Anecdotes are not substantial. As you say, so what? Does it all have to be about you?…

I have yet to see proof that tech is any different than medicine or law, where societal barriers were demonstrably the only things keeping women from equal participation. The centuries of discrimination, both blatant and subtle, were very substantial.

Also, the pseudo-clever "nuh-uh, you're the real sexist" stuff is the kind of bullshit that I only ever see from anonymous accounts. If you want to make (idiotic) personal accusations, own your words.

Re: Why Aren't There More Women Programmers?

#75

Post by erikpukinskis »

pjbrunet wrote: post #62
yelnatz wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whose teaching them they cant?

I don't know. My programming teacher in high school was literally on his knees begging the last two girls to continue to the next level.

It sounds like you're suggesting that since one teacher is encouraging two girls to program that therefore everyone in every girl's life is just as encouraging to them as they are to the boys.

Re: Why Aren't There More Women Programmers?

#76

Post by pjbrunet »

erikpukinskis wrote: post #75
pjbrunet wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know. My programming teacher in high school was literally on his knees begging the last two girls to continue to the next level.

It sounds like you're suggesting that since one teacher is encouraging two girls to program that therefore everyone in every girl's life is just as encouraging to them as they are to the boys.

Is that true for anyone? If someone I really respect is encouraging me, that's very persuasive but there are so many forces at work when choosing a career, I don't think there's any way to quantify that decision. But of course teachers make a big difference, for better or worse. This particular teacher, I know one of his female students is a successful 3D graphics engineer, another classmate works at Intel, etc.
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