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"Let's ban tiny phones" - UK Government

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Re: "Let's ban tiny phones" - UK Government

#71

Post by nicholassmith »

onetimeonly wrote: post #20

I've been to jail in the UK. I served 4.5 months in B and C category prisons. Phones are so easy to get hold of, I don't think most people would believe it. During my time I emailed photos from inside the prison to friends outside using a smartphone. Approx. every other prisoner had a phone, and everyone had access. They were so popular that I was able to keep myself safe (i.e. useful) by offering a phone unlocking s…

That's an interesting little fact, I'd have assumed (naively) it'd be closer to 1 in 10 for phone ownership in prison populations due to the risk in things coming over the walls.

Re: "Let's ban tiny phones" - UK Government

#72

Post by jacquesm »

onetimeonly wrote: post #40
JonnieCache wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to know what life in a UK prison is actually like, read this ebook, HMP - A Survival Guide http://issuu.com/prisonism/docs/hmp_a_survival_guide It's a down to earth practical guide aimed at someone who hasn't been to prison before. The ToC features such chapters as Sharing A Cell, Violence, Getting Stuff Done (Complaints and Applications and so on. Smoking teabags, making toast using the radiator, cooking…

I wish I'd read this before going inside. It's very detailed, insightful and in some places poignant.

I've posted it as an article. If you don't mind my asking, and feel free to ignore, what were you in jail for?

Re: "Let's ban tiny phones" - UK Government

#73

Post by steauengeglase »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #56
tomjen3 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting idea, but that wouldn't work, the authorities wouldn't let the drones close enough to the prisons. Oh and the drones I have seen available can't handle enough weight to lift much of anything.

> Interesting idea, but that wouldn't work, the authorities wouldn't let the drones close enough to the prisons. Couldn't they instead mortar things into the prison? Shoot a capsule with a phone on a very steep ballistic trajectory.

You don't need to patch the problem and anyone trying is probably out to sell you $50 million system.

In my state an inmate was broken out with a helicopter. The Dept of Corrections had an interesting solution. Anyone caught looking up at the sky goes into solitary confinement. No one has tried it since.

You don't patch the cause of the problem, you break the part of the will that would even make you think about the solution. It is much cheaper and it creates a more malleable population.

Not that I approve of the approach but the voters wanting anything that can't be painted as 3 hots and a cot.

Re: "Let's ban tiny phones" - UK Government

#74

Post by einhverfr »

ImprovedSilence wrote: post #65
einhverfr wrote: post #30

My first thought was "how much of this is about jails and how much is about small 3g-capable cameras?

it's about inmates being capable of continuing to run organized crime/drug rings from inside a jail cell.

That is the stated rationale. But after the Guardian incident, the first thought in my mind is about journalists.

Re: "Let's ban tiny phones" - UK Government

#75

Post by epo »

This has as much credence as any of Baldrick's "cunning plans". This could be one of a number of things.

It could just be a media fantasy

It might be a proposal which has made it high enough up the food chain that it is being aired in the media to see what the reaction would be.

It could be "chaff" intended to show that the Government is doing things and to draw attention away from the Guardian/Miranda fuss of recent days.

It is unlikely to be under serious consideration. As I have said here in recent days, despite your collective geekish arrogance, they are cleverer than that and they are clever than you.

Re: "Let's ban tiny phones" - UK Government

#76

Post by superuser2 »

vitalique wrote: post #42
hmottestad wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

New UK startup: We deliver your package by anonymous drone. Drop from any height with or without parachute at any hour of the day. You mail us your package together and a form specifying when, where and how your package should be delivered. Use the calulator on our webpages to calculate the price of the delivery. Cash or check is accepted. Any change can be delivered with your package. Specify drop height, parachute,…

My thoughts exactly (except for the part of making it an underground startup): in these days of drones and copters boom, I wonder how much time will pass before we hear about phones, guns, tobacco or whatever being smuggled into prisons by swarms of elusive quadrocopters.

Prisons will probably have to adopt some form of electronic countermeasures. Civilian GPS is easily spoofed, auto-targeting lasers could make onboard cameras useless, and radio jamming ought to be put in place regardless of drones to combat cell phones.

Governments are able to play the game of constantly one-upping electronic warfare systems, but you could make it too expensive for civilians to have any sort of control or visibility when flying a drone over your site.

Re: "Let's ban tiny phones" - UK Government

#77

Post by gizmo686 »

nicholassmith wrote: post #13
gazrogers wrote: post #4

Wouldn't it make more sense to make prisons mobile signal dead-zones?

It's a tricky one, legally running jammers in the UK is a no-no on the books ( http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/enforcement/spectrum-enforc... ), however I'm not sure whether there's an exemption clause for prisons, or whether you can apply for a license for a jammer for specific circumstances.

I can't speak to the UK, but in the US jammers are illegal with an explicit exemption for prisons.

Re: "Let's ban tiny phones" - UK Government

#78

Post by DanBC »

smtddr wrote: post #39
DanBC wrote: post #11

Banning tiny phones is stupid. These people have already shown that they don't care about the law - that's why they're in jail[1] and having a cell phone in prison is already not legal. What's it going to be now? Double plus unlegal? Surely faraday cages and cell-phone jamming would be easier and less restrictive for regular people. (The BBC article says they're changing legislation to allow them to block signals in…

>These people have already shown that they don't care about the law - that's why they're in jail While I agree banning small cellphones is useless, I don't care for this generalization. Not everyone in jail has a blatant disregard for law. For some it was just a moment of desperation, for some it was for some silly reason like weed, some may just be young people making mistakes and had the misfortune of being one of…

You make a very good point, and I apologise for my over-generalisation.

I should have been more careful.

Re: "Let's ban tiny phones" - UK Government

#79

Post by onetimeonly »

jacquesm wrote: post #72
onetimeonly wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish I'd read this before going inside. It's very detailed, insightful and in some places poignant.

I've posted it as an article. If you don't mind my asking, and feel free to ignore, what were you in jail for?

Sorry didn't see this comment for a while.

I ran a black-hat collective between the ages of 13 and about 17. That led to getting lots of offers to hack for money, and through discussion with the people making those offers, eventually to getting interested in document security. I developed a way to replicate the UK driving license with all security features using commodity hardware. It fooled police officers and every official that ever looked at it. I sold the licenses to fund my desire to improve the design and manufacture. People used them for, among other things, fraud. 'conspiracy to defraud' was the crime.

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