Don't Fly During Ramadan • Hacker News Board

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan

#971

Post by 616c » Sat, Aug 24, 2013, 9:56 PM UTC

ncallaway wrote: post #679

laureny wrote: post #517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Call me a troll but you should check your moral compass. Do not argue for the torture, psychological or physical, of others if you cannot hack or attempt to at least once. That's a weird line of reasoning. For example, according to you, I shouldn't have an opinion on death penalty unless I'm willing to see what it does? Besides, the debate is not whether torture hurts the victim or not: everybody on either side of…

> Surely I can have an opinion on this without having to lie down and have gallons of water poured into my mouth through a cloth? You certainly are entitled to having an opinion on anything. Personally, on topics such as water-boarding, I will lend much greater credence to someone that has experienced water-boarding. > the debate is not whether torture hurts the victim or not: everybody on either side of that fence k…

What I was saying is that it is morally reprehensible to find ways to justify torture. If that does not work for you and you need to reconsider your side-stepping passive support of something so abhorrent, go the empirical way and try it. You will realize then why no person should have to go through it, even if you think there is a good reason. No one stands up to torture well for any given period of time, or no one would use it.

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan

#972

Post by model-m » Sat, Aug 24, 2013, 11:32 PM UTC

pessimizer wrote: post #304

chimeracoder wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That thought is terrifying. I was afraid I was going to be put on the no-fly list afterwards and would have to travel back to NYC by train (a four-day trip). Even before this experience I used to avoid flying in favor of taking the train. I don't know what I'd do if the TSA became commonplace at train stations.

I haven't flown since shortly after you had to take off your shoes to get through security, taking Amtrak instead, and I've only ever even seen two people searched by TSA. You barely even see them, and if you do, they're usually sitting around looking bored. I suspect that they only bother to do the random searches if they've gotten some specific alert or warning. Many, many trips between Chicago and SF, Portland, an…

A terrorist would have to put a single bomb on a single train to drastically change things. The TSA would then step in and do all the heavy lifting for them, creating terror and removing freedom.

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan

#973

Post by geoka9 » Sun, Aug 25, 2013, 4:52 AM UTC

madaxe wrote: post #866

geoka9 wrote: post #567

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say this is probably true for Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan, as those countries have powerful authoritarian leaders that fully enjoy the benefits of the security apparatus left over from the USSR. Tajikistan is different as the president's power is somewhat limited the further away you go from the few important cities. Don't know much about Kazakhstan, but I suspect it's more or less like Uzbekistan.

Been there. Nothing like Uzbekistan. And Uzbekistan is nothing like Turkmen. Just because they're in the same (HUGE) part of the world doesn't make them all the same. Mexicans, Americans, Ecuadorians, what's the difference?

They are not all the same. I was replying to the OP's comment:

> The ex-soviet central Asian republics are packed full of secret police.

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan

#974

Post by mhartl » Sun, Aug 25, 2013, 5:50 AM UTC

siculars wrote: post #357

So my brother is a doctor. He told me a story about one of his colleagues, also a doctor, one of the smartest doctors my brother knows (which is no light praise), who happens to be a brown colored Muslim. My brother's brown colored Muslim doctor colleague tells him that it is increasingly humiliating to be constantly harassed by TSA when traveling and that he is thinking of leaving the country. My brother follows up…

*its citizens and its visitors

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan

#975

Post by beedogs » Sun, Aug 25, 2013, 6:39 AM UTC

eslaught wrote: post #811

beedogs wrote: post #800

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nowhere in the Constitution does it say the government can't hamfistedly accuse you of a crime. All it says is that they have to charge you or let you go in 24 hours, give you a trial, and punish you in a consistent way. They did that here; they asked some questions and they let him go. They also broke into his apartment while doing that, and detained him for the better part of a day with no real probable cause oth…

You know, as probably causes go, that really isn't that bad. Certainly, people have been stopped for less, and kept just as long or longer. If they made a mistake, it was that they didn't have an efficient procedure for figuring out whether the chemicals detected by the machine were actually explosives or not. Incompetence is bad, certainly, but not as bad as corruption.

There's an unhealthy mixture of both incompetence and corruption within the TSA.

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan

#976

Post by brymaster » Sun, Aug 25, 2013, 7:34 AM UTC

a_bonobo wrote: post #836

JabavuAdams wrote: post #817

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of these are abuses of power, and should be opposed. That said, I'm confident that there is no nation state on Earth that hasn't done these things. Please correct me if you can think of examples. The difference now is that they are affecting mainstream, middle-class, "normal" Americans. While it's good that people are angry about these abuses, it also seems incredibly naive. This is what states do. This is what t…

>That said, I'm confident that there is no nation state on Earth that hasn't done these things. Please, tell me one "first-world" country that has kill lists??

Wow, you need to pay attention more.

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan

#977

Post by moocowduckquack » Sun, Aug 25, 2013, 11:31 AM UTC

nske wrote: post #965

moocowduckquack wrote: post #939

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"could be that the US justice system is that much more effective" If the effectiveness of a justice system is seen in terms of rate of incarceration, then the society that takes that view does not sound particularly as though it believes in freedom as a fundamental value, but rather prefers values like retribution and security through deferment to authority. " US inhabitants are that much more disobedient to the same…

"If the effectiveness of a justice system is seen in terms of rate of incarceration, then the society that takes that view does not sound particularly as though it believes in freedom as a fundamental value, but rather prefers values like retribution and security through deferment to authority." There are certain behaviors that the society has to be protected from, right? After all, freedom doesn't mean much if i.e.…

"I mean, simply put, what are the things that in the US would get you in jail and they wouldn't in, let's say, the UK?"

There is no way in the UK to get a life sentence from a small crime in the way that the three strikes laws do in the US.

In general our jail sentences are much shorter for equivalent crimes in the US and we have nowhere near the rate of incarcerating children either and are much less likely to get the police involved for misbehaving in school.

We are also much less likely to incarcerate for drug possession over here.

There are also crimes that simply do not exist in the UK, such as jaywalking, which got the Oxford historian, Professor Felipe Fernández-Armesto, locked up for the evening when he visited Atlanta for a conference. http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/jan/11/highereducation.ed...

The US also has a habit of handing out sentences far longer than the possible lifespan of the accused even for non-violent offences, such as the 124 years that Hector Monsegur is being threatened with for his role in lulzsec, or the 150 years handed out to Bernie Madoff, which the Judge stated was "to send a symbolic message".

Overall, for the same acts, in the US you are much more likely to be jailed than in the UK and also, even if you would have been jailed in the UK, the length of sentence is far far higher in the US.

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan

#978

Post by serf » Sun, Aug 25, 2013, 3:12 PM UTC

Zimahl wrote: post #528

serf wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

how much of that applies to the TSA? I'd like to know for my own benefit during travel. I know how to speak to a policeman, but I was under the idea that the TSA had even larger authority.

All of it? Why would it only be a portion? Just because you exercise the 5th doesn't mean the police or Feds have to suddenly make you comfortable. He asked for water and probably could've gotten some if he had pushed the issue, it didn't seem as though he was being very vocal about being hungry and thirsty.

Are you asking me if all of it applies?

Because time and time again the aggressive treatment of passengers by the TSA has proven that we DO NOT have the same rights when dealing with the TSA.

Care to answer my question in a non-snark way? Regardless of the rules and laws in place, it's obvious (to a signifigant amount of other people) that American rights are being trampled on a near daily basis.

>>Why would it only be a portion?

I agree. Why is it?

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan

#979

Post by samfisher83 » Sun, Aug 25, 2013, 3:43 PM UTC

darklajid wrote: post #558

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #513

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> your line of thought is that you trust that machine to be somewhat reliable // And your problem is you assume the machine isn't reliable. So then if it's set off, you just say "ah well, it's probably a false reading". At that point you just obviated the purpose of the machine. Yes we don't learn whether it was the permethrin (? can't certainly recall the name) but the people who did the sweep of his apartment confi…

That's weird. You're turning the argument on its head. YOU started supporting the process and said something like Don't people who're manufacturing explosives in secret.. Well, based on what evidence? The machine that detects chemicals here? It seems that this supports my claim, you think that machine is 'working' and somewhat reliable. Without having provided any kind of proof or source, by the way. The article, the…

You can't tell between the moving plants and making bombs because materials in one can be used for the other.

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan

#980

Post by auctiontheory » Sun, Aug 25, 2013, 5:35 PM UTC

At least 2 billion people in the world would instantly know that "Mukerjee" is not remotely a Muslim name. And yet the FBI doesn't.

That's our problem right there, at home and abroad: Total and complete lack of cultural knowledge among the (US-born, mostly white) folks in our security and military forces.

Of course, in this individual case (which does not excuse their behavior) he could have made everyone's life easier by just saying "I am not Muslim, I want a BLT" since that was obviously their suspicion.