Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer to retire within 12 months • Hacker News Board

Re: Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer to retire within 12 months

#461

Post by nemothekid » Fri, Aug 23, 2013, 6:14 PM UTC

polyomino wrote: post #423

corresation wrote: post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OEMs like Dell were shitting all over the Windows brand with plasticky (and still expensive!), heavy, unreliable, loud-as-shit laptops with terrible screens. This is utter nonsense. There simply is no other way to put it. There have always been premium Windows machines (Sony was doing the extremely-thin, fits in an envelope, made-with-unobtanium laptop thing years before Apple did), and discount machines. Focus-on-ae…

Even the $3000+ laptops from Sony or other oems were littered with crapware. When consumers shifted from desktops to mobile all of the hardware innovation was moved to the oems' suppliers, which led them to drop all of their technical talent. Now the likes of dell and hp are full of mbas whose job is to make deals with companies like McAfee to squeeze an extra penny out of each sale and to annoy clueless consumers wh…

>Even the $3000+ laptops from Sony or other oems were littered with crapware.

Not 100% true. I remember buying a $2000 Vaio Z a couple years ago that had the option of getting a clean windows install (for $50 more)

Re: Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer to retire within 12 months

#462

Post by clarky07 » Fri, Aug 23, 2013, 6:15 PM UTC

kjhughes wrote: post #61

What were the key Ballmer era highlights? == Negatives == * Clashes with Gates during CEO transition of power: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121261241035146237.html * Developer relations / motivational speaking (thanks mathattack): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvsboPUjrGc * Employee retention (thanks JonnieCache, Ziomislaw): http://www.smh.com.au/news/technology/microsoft-ceo-im-going... * Windows Phone: http://…

==Positive== He grew revenue and profits at incredible levels. He doesn't get credit because the stock price hasn't gone up, but that is just because he took over during the tech bubble and Microsoft was greatly overvalued at the time. I think profit has more than tripled since he started.

Re: Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer to retire within 12 months

#463

Post by mkautzm » Fri, Aug 23, 2013, 6:18 PM UTC

astrodust wrote: post #232

sker wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've mentioned Windows 7 twice in this thread. By what measure do you consider it a failure? If anything, Windows 7 is the best thing released under Ballmer.

Windows 7 is not a success. It's just a non-failure. The only reason people use it at all isn't because it's fantastic, but because it's incrementally better than Windows XP without all the garbage Vista foisted on the user. After having used it for an extended period of time, the only real improvements I've seen are in the explorer shell, which are minor at best, and the theme.

Windows 7 is orders of magnitude easier to manage.

A lot of the improvements under the hood the consumer didn't see or notice. One that they might have noticed is the ability for the OS to find proper drivers for pretty much any consumer device from a major manufacturer.

Other than that, there are other features that put W7 was ahead of XP in terms of management ease.

Re: Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer to retire within 12 months

#464

Post by EthanHeilman » Fri, Aug 23, 2013, 6:20 PM UTC

sheri wrote: post #436

nl wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hard to disagree with sarcasm on the internet. But in this case you are absolutely correct. Microsoft used to control the future of computing. Now they are yet another enterprise software company with no apparent mission except to make money. The lay somewhere on a continuum with IBM, Oracle, SAP all the way through to companies like CA. At one end of that spectrum they do research and produce software that peop…

There is a tendency to believe that the companies which are doing well right now have 'won' in some sense. We need to understand that this is the state of affairs right now. There is a non-trivial possibility that Facebook/Google etc become lumbering giants just like MSFT.

>There is a non-trivial possibility that Facebook/Google etc become lumbering giants just like MSFT.

It might already be true, how do you distinguish between a lumbering giant and not without the help of hindsight? The public consensus on such things lags a few years behind reality.

What signs have you seen in 2013 that Google is not a lumbering giant?

Re: Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer to retire within 12 months

#465

Post by wallygold » Fri, Aug 23, 2013, 6:22 PM UTC

gibybo wrote: post #384

wallygold wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They've paid dividends pretty consistently over that time so if the price is the same (or close) hasn't it effectively appreciated? This article puts the cash value of the 2004 special dividend at 32 billion. (And that's not to include the quarterly dividends that they haven't missed a beat on.) http://www.nytimes.com/2004/07/21/business/technology-micros...

The dollar has inflated 40% since 1999, so the value of a MSFT share has decreased quite a bit.

Is that still the case when dividends are taken into account?

If I've held a share since 1999, in place of it I don't just have a share today: I have whatever I've done with the dividend payments that came in the interim.

Re: Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer to retire within 12 months

#466

Post by freehunter » Fri, Aug 23, 2013, 6:28 PM UTC

incongruity wrote: post #422

freehunter wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, Windows Mobile existed and gained market dominance long before the iPhone was around. Tablet PCs were introduced with Windows XP, long before the iPad was around. Microsoft's failure was in hesitating to change with the market, not a failure to have products on the market.

I'd go so far as to argue that it really wasn't the same market - the one that Windows Mobile was in was not anything like the smartphone market created by Apple and Google. Tablets, you can make a case for, as above, I guess, but again, the leap with the iPad was so great that it wasn't just an iteration but a leap, leaving it open for a fast follower to come on (as Google did there too).

The difference I was trying to point out was that Apple and Google had no legacy involvement in the market at all. Microsoft had clearly defined strategies that were playing out, and were working on developments to further those strategies.

Apple and Google didn't have Windows Mobile 6, 7, and 8 being planned and developed when iOS or Android were released. Microsoft did. It's slower to turn a ship around than it is to start one going in the right direction in the first place.

And besides faster processors and a slicker UI, what exactly puts Android in a different market than Windows Mobile? Serious question. Both allow you to develop, download, and install apps. Both are pocket computers with a cell phone built in, built on the same paradigm that Microsoft ushered in throughout the 90's (give users almost complete control, let OEMs do whatever they want on the hardware side). Windows Mobile has touchscreen support. Both can/could be gotten for very cheap or very expensive. Android seems to be, for all intents and purposes, a straight-line evolution of Windows Mobile with a Linux kernel (yet still closed-source where it really counts).

Re: Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer to retire within 12 months

#467

Post by TheLegace » Fri, Aug 23, 2013, 6:28 PM UTC

randyrand wrote: post #298

kabdib wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank God. (Speaking as an ex-Microsoftie). Hopefully MS will lose the "we need to put Windows on everything, including embedded systems" attitude. Windows is a horrible bloated mess barely capable of successfully running on a tablet PC, much less smaller things. (And if you've ever had to /build/ Windows . . . OMG. OMFG). There are core bits of Windows that are great; the I/O system is incredibly well done. Then the…

Not sure if you're talking about the kernel (which I've heard very good things about and has been ported to run on WP smartphones with as little as 256mb ram and crappy processors) or specifically just the windows layer on top of it but I don't know of any desktop class OS that runs on smartphones. OSX doesnt. OSX doesnt even run on tablets (not that it can't, idk) Ubuntu cant run on smartphones either. The edge was…

I can run Ubuntu on my Nexus 4 and Android wishes it could run that smoothly. Even in beta it is incredible smooth, it just a shame it can't really do anything since the apps are all just filler.

Linux is superior for mobile platforms. Even Ubuntu with it's bloated software and UI can run. Someone just needs to develop a good ecosystem for that merges Desktop, Laptops, tablets and other mobile devices where you actually develop for them sort of simultaneously. Or your framework can be designed to incorporate all factors of computing and even make them interoperable.

Re: Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer to retire within 12 months

#468

Post by erikpukinskis » Fri, Aug 23, 2013, 6:30 PM UTC

adventured wrote: post #375

nl wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hard to disagree with sarcasm on the internet. But in this case you are absolutely correct. Microsoft used to control the future of computing. Now they are yet another enterprise software company with no apparent mission except to make money. The lay somewhere on a continuum with IBM, Oracle, SAP all the way through to companies like CA. At one end of that spectrum they do research and produce software that peop…

Why would anybody think that there aren't limits to what one company can dominate? This absurd notion that Microsoft could have ever possibly retained "control" of the future of computing (apparently forever would be the requirement) is non-sense.

You have to understand that some of us, who were around and writing code through the 90s, are still a little PTSD about Microsoft. Back then, when Microsoft did control computing, it was easy to wonder if maybe they would control it forever.

It was a shitty period. There was a sense of futility to building software. You could build small software, but as soon as you reached a certain scale, particularly if you were a platform company, Microsoft would decide that they'd like to take your revenue, so they'd box your software out of their operating system with incompatibilities, launch their own competitor, and eat your lunch.

The only sane strategy at the time was to try to anticipate what areas of computing Microsoft would likely never enter. But even that is Russian Roulette.

So, in 2013, yes. It's "obvious" now that Microsoft couldn't have possibly retained the control they had. But many of us have deep recesses in our brain that are still shocked that we got here.

Re: Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer to retire within 12 months

#469

Post by mbreese » Fri, Aug 23, 2013, 6:30 PM UTC

fauigerzigerk wrote: post #94

lbarrow wrote: post #23

He'll be remembered as a terrible CEO. Ballmer took over as CEO in 2000. In the 13 years since then, Apple has experienced an unprecedented resurgence. Google and Facebook have gone from being obscure startups to giants. The tech industry went through the bubble, recovered, and today is stronger than ever. What happened to Microsoft? While the rest of the tech sector exploded and prospered, it stayed still. A MSFT sh…

I agree that he will probably not be remembered for having more than doubled revenue and almost tripled profits. He will not be remembered for transforming Microsoft into one of the most important enterprise software companies. Not for introducing .NET, C# or Kinect either. All of that will be forgotten. He will be remembered for missing mobile. He will also be remembered for caring a lot about developers and about d…

Regardless of how much profits have gone up, Balmer will be remembered in the business world for one number: $35. It doesn't matter how much they sold, what investors care about is the stock price. And during his tenure, it has remained stagnant.

Re: Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer to retire within 12 months

#470

Post by microtonal » Fri, Aug 23, 2013, 6:33 PM UTC

potatolicious wrote: post #340

microtonal wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, judging by the number of iMessages that arrive in a correct order on my iPhone/Mac and their inability to make iTunes Match stable, it's hard to believe that iCloud will be a success in the end. Under Jobs Apple made stellar hardware and good-enough software.

Ehh, I think Apple's software is pretty good - note that this is speaking as someone who writes iOS apps for a living. Where they fail is web services. Apple cannot engineer a decent web service to save their sorry lives. The Cocoa API is pretty well thought out, generally well-documented, and pretty well-engineered. Then you get into things where you have to talk to Apple via a network. StoreKit? [ shudder ]. iCloud…

The Cocoa API is pretty well thought out, generally well-documented, and pretty well-engineered.

I agree, their APIs are generally very nice. But the last few releases of OS X haven't been great. Multi-monitor support will finally be fixed in 10.9, after having been broken in 10.7 and 10.8. Also, recent releases have become very slow. A 2009 Mac Mini running 10.8 is unbearably slow, while the same machine is on 10.6 is almost as fast as a recent machine machine with a SSD on 10.8.