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Fukushima leak is 'much worse than we were led to believe'

bbc.co.uk

261–265 of 265 posts

Re: Fukushima leak is 'much worse than we were led to believe'

#261
post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's funny how you think that getting to the heart of the matter is "distraction." But from your answer I can see why you don't want to have this discussion, it's just sheer nonsense. The word "right" doesn't refer to "we've always raped and pillaged after we won a war, so that gives us a right to keep on doing it." I don't think you are philosophically equipped to use the word "right" here. For you, "right" simply m…

The topic of the discussion is a nuclear accident. Nevertheless I'm still discussing libertarianism with you. The word "right" doesn't refer to "we've always raped and pillaged after we won a war, so that gives us a right to keep on doing it." I agree with that 100%. I don't think anything I have said could be taken to mean that I support rape & pillage. For you, "right" simply means "might." No it doesn't, and just…

I understand the libertarian view: that governmental power is illegitimate because it is derived from force.

This is incorrect. Certainly some strains of libertarianism wrongly think that, but certainly not all. The word "libertarian" is a very loose idea, not some specific ideology. And besides, you were the one who claimed I was "libertarian", I never made the claim myself. What I'd say is that I'm pro-individual consent. "Classical liberal" is a fine word.

I also completely reject that view: I believe that governmental power is derived from a civil society and that power is society's way of imposing an agreed set of behaviour in the face of bad actors. I see nothing immoral or wrong in this - indeed, it is the very principle of democracy.

The question you're ignoring is: what are the proper limits of government power? You claim I'm ignoring questions, but this is the only question of importance. I only bring up the drugs example to highlight an obvious abuse. Nuclear power is a more complex issue. When you're confused about arithmetic, we don't discuss calculus. Likewise, when you're confused about rights, we don't discuss nuclear power. We stick with simpler issues.

Re: Fukushima leak is 'much worse than we were led to believe'

#262
post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The topic of the discussion is a nuclear accident. Nevertheless I'm still discussing libertarianism with you. The word "right" doesn't refer to "we've always raped and pillaged after we won a war, so that gives us a right to keep on doing it." I agree with that 100%. I don't think anything I have said could be taken to mean that I support rape & pillage. For you, "right" simply means "might." No it doesn't, and just…

I understand the libertarian view: that governmental power is illegitimate because it is derived from force. This is incorrect. Certainly some strains of libertarianism wrongly think that, but certainly not all. The word "libertarian" is a very loose idea, not some specific ideology. And besides, you were the one who claimed I was "libertarian", I never made the claim myself. What I'd say is that I'm pro-individual c…

The limits of government power are whatever the society associated with that government decides they are.

Re: Fukushima leak is 'much worse than we were led to believe'

#263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regulatory capture is a big problem. Regulatory capture is THE problem. Contrary to the parent post's claim, the problem is not with our "economic system". It's that, if you're going to regulate something (particularly something as complex as nuclear energy), then you need experts. And the only place to get those experts is from the industry. Generally, those people are naturally going to look at the industry from a…

How about requiring that regulators for one country be drawn from the industry experts of another?

Like how the International Atomic Energy Authority advises on nuclear power world wide?

Re: Fukushima leak is 'much worse than we were led to believe'

#264
post #16

I think there are similarities between the nuclear power debate and the GMO debate. In both case, I think it's stupid to be fundamentally opposed to the technology/research itself. But in both case, the industry is so fucked up (lies, too close ties with control authority, ...) that I don't trust them at all. It seems to me this is partially a failure of our current economic system, where the incentives for the indus…

Risk is cost we can't measure because it would require the ability to predict what we cannot. Rents are profits that aren't really profits.

The thing to do is be open, transparent and honest about risk and rents. But at our core, we're all liars when the stakes get high. The math is also error prone.

Remember the political climate those old GE nuke plants were built under - "too cheap to meter" and run by people like Leslie Groves who had infought enough to be at the top of the heap. there was this strange, willful naievete.

"Making those industries transparent and honest" seems impossible.

Re: Fukushima leak is 'much worse than we were led to believe'

#265
post #241
post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, once it's perfectly stirred every glass of water from the ocean contains radiating Fukushima atoms. You just have to make sure none of your cells is currently on the edge to switch to cancer mode.

Please read up about e.g. statistics, [radiation] risks and Avogadro's number. This cool xkcd link was posted just next to my GP comment: http://xkcd.com/radiation/ Look especially at the the varying background radiation levels -- and minimum level of radiation that has been proven to increase cancer risk. (And if you're trolling, go to the gym instead.)

Did all that years ago, didn't come to the conclusion radiation and cancer are unrelated. But, if you think a higher mutation rate is a good thing go ahead, I think Tepco is currently looking for that kind of worker.
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