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Don't Fly During Ramadan

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Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan

#931

Post by tripzilch »

greedo wrote: post #696
jrockway wrote: post #487

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Things have changed since 9/11. Explosives have gotten smaller and more stable. And nobody checks bags anymore, because it's cheaper to carry them on. So now you have to do the same screening you did before, but in "real time" and looking for something smaller. 9/11 did cause a lot of hysteria, but the risk profile has also changed since then. (Also, if you get TSA Pre, the security standards become essentially what…

Everytime I travel, I notice a huge number of people checking bags. See how that anecdata works? And if explosives have magically gotten smaller and more stable in the last 12 years (somehow defying chemistry and physics), why aren't we seeing more successful attacks? Or arrests of terrorists who underestimate how good the TSA is? Could it be that we're protecting ourselves against a miniscule threat? I bet if we inv…

> I bet if we invoked some type of placebo security where the guards just watched a rerun of South Park instead of the xray screen, we'd be just as "effective."

I think they already do, except they're only showing that one early episode where Cartman goes all RESPECT MAH AUTHORITAYH

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan

#932

Post by tripzilch »

notahacker wrote: post #301
mindcrime wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think this is that oppressive. Yeah, well, it didn't happen to you, did it? He went through security and set off an explosives detector. The cops showed up and asked some questions. Then he left. "We gave him free room and board for 17 years, then laid him on a comfortable bed and gave him some medicine to make him fall asleep for a while". vs. "We kept him caged in a tiny, windowless cell and gave him just e…

In this case, the pertinent detail is the fact the man set of explosive detectors. The other details, far from suggesting oppressive state apparatus, suggested an assortment of rent-a-cops and airline staff that really weren't particularly well-prepared for the guy that couldn't account for the explosives and flagged other profiling alarms without actually giving any indication of being an actual threat. If you want…

> In this case, the pertinent detail is the fact the man set of explosive detectors.

Actually no, the pertinent detail is the fact that he wasn't carrying any explosives or planning anything nefarious.

> The most objectionable behaviour was arguably JetBlue's decision to refuse to honour the return ticket

You can't be serious. An innocent man was held against his will, questioned,with no water, for 18 hours, while in the mean some some secret police broke into his house, and the worst thing you can see about this is that he didn't get his money back??

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan

#933

Post by DannyBee »

jarek wrote: post #827
DannyBee wrote: post #823

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand what ID means. You are suppose to report address changes, and in most states, you usually only get 10 days or less to do so. Ignoring that for a second, what you have attempted to refute is not the sum total of the issue here. The thing is, at every turn there was just a coincidental reason something happened to turn out that way. If you don't think this looks highly suspicious on someone whose hands and…

I do not think moving within 10 days of taking a flight is an "odd" story, but I don't think any further discussion will go anywhere.

Could you at least answer who you believe they are supposed to be targeting if not people who set off explosive detectors and can't provide concrete evidence of anything they say?

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan

#934

Post by homosaur »

ferdo wrote: post #726
jwr wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've a friend who spent a good deal of time recently in Khazakhstan, and she was very amused by my attempts to express my fears of the United States becoming an authoritarian police state. She laughed and said that no, I did not understand what it was to have secret police following you about and all these other sorts of issues. And she is right — the US is nowhere near being an authoritarian police state. But it i…

> the US is nowhere near being an authoritarian police state. The US has the highest incarceration rate on the planet and perhaps in history. I'd say we're there.

When people who are in the majority, politically or ethnically, say they aren't in a police state it's usually because they aren't yet being targeted.

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan

#936

Post by nightcomer »

Clearly misleading title. What does it have to do with Ramadan/Muslims. You are just trying to create a bad effect. I think clearly this is a publicity stunt. What did you get from writing this? Happiness? Stop hurting other's sentiments.

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan

#937

Post by danielweber »

rayiner wrote: post #893
venomsnake wrote: post #598

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You cannot have true security. You can have acceptable security. The law of diminishing returns kicks very hard after a point. Basically you should aim to keep terrorism the least of the risks for the society but to accept it as a non zero. But the moment less people are dying from terrorism than lets say random obscure health condition then the money and resources are better invested elsewhere.

The point isn't the number of people dying. Its the chilling effect. Travel was way down after 9/11 due to fear. That has a much bigger economic effect than just the deaths. In the 1970s there was no airport security. Airliners believed it would be cheaper to just pay off plane hijackers. That was before those hijackers started flying them into skyscrapers.

The lower airline travel isn't just from fear; it's also from the additional time and hassles of security.

. . . although after many years of not flying, in the past 2 months I've gone through security about 10 times and it's always been pleasant and professional and quick.

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan

#938

Post by javert »

emiliobumachar wrote: post #822
javert wrote: post #803

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, so you support genocide against Jews?

No, and I honestly can't think of how you interpreted that. Please explain. EDIT: Oh, wait, I think I get it: you see the U.S. as a safe heaven, a place people should go to escape dictatorships, a place where their rights would be respected. Is that it?

Iranian government officials have repeatedly stated that their goal is to wipe Israel off the face of the earth. Even if you don't believe them, their nuclear weapons could end up in the hands of terrorists who do have that goal.

If you support the US allowing Iranian nuclear scientists to return to Iran, you are supporting that policy.

As a side note, an advanced Iranian nuclear state would likely entail a massive war in the Middle East to stop them, so there's also that.

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan

#939

Post by moocowduckquack »

nske wrote: post #876
moocowduckquack wrote: post #814

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"the US continues to be one of the most free countries in the world in all respects." If this is true, then why does it jail more people per capita than any other country by a long, long way? Your population can't be simultaneously one of the most free and be the most incarcerated, as that makes no sense.

It depends, some other possible explanations could be that the US justice system is that much more effective or that US inhabitants are that much more disobedient to the same laws than those of other countries. Not saying that's the case, just wouldn't be so quick to dismiss anything. US can indeed be said that are among the most free countries, but that doesn't really say anything without clarifying who we are compa…

"could be that the US justice system is that much more effective"

If the effectiveness of a justice system is seen in terms of rate of incarceration, then the society that takes that view does not sound particularly as though it believes in freedom as a fundamental value, but rather prefers values like retribution and security through deferment to authority.

"US inhabitants are that much more disobedient to the same laws than those of other countries"

This doesn't hold any water either. For one thing disobedience is an aspect of freedom itself, so that a free society would presumably have a reasonable tolerance to simple disobedience and wouldn't use disobedience in and of itself to justify incarceration and would need to establish harm and public interest. Also, the rate of incarceration in the US is so massively higher than other countries that it becomes patently ridiculous to try and justify it by claiming people in the US are that much less moral than other people and so need locking up more.

I know you don't subscribe to these stances and say that they are just other possible explanations, however I do not think they qualify as possible explanations, as they have some incompatibilities with the general concept of freedom, and the actual situation in the US.

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan

#940

Post by [deleted] »

javert wrote: post #938
emiliobumachar wrote: post #822

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, and I honestly can't think of how you interpreted that. Please explain. EDIT: Oh, wait, I think I get it: you see the U.S. as a safe heaven, a place people should go to escape dictatorships, a place where their rights would be respected. Is that it?

Iranian government officials have repeatedly stated that their goal is to wipe Israel off the face of the earth. Even if you don't believe them, their nuclear weapons could end up in the hands of terrorists who do have that goal. If you support the US allowing Iranian nuclear scientists to return to Iran, you are supporting that policy. As a side note, an advanced Iranian nuclear state would likely entail a massive w…

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